Topic by Cellomangler

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Topic: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

First all... I've been playing Pianoteq for years - always update.  Love it. But.... I've been noticing something more and more regarding a certain "aliasing" on sustained notes around 3.1k principally around B2 to D3 (middle=C4).  I searched but didn't find a similar topic, though I'm sure it's there. It's a high pitched phasing, kind like a distant train brake.   Granted acoustic pianos do this, particularly if slightly out of tune or if something is brushing a string.  I'm not a professional pianist, so maybe it's something else in my system (or ears).  I hear it more with the K2 and Steinway D.  I don't hear it so much with the Bluethner or Petrof 284.  I'm sure it's different for all the models.  I can go into note edit and lower the impedence for the affected notes and that does away with most of it.  I can't apply that overall as it destroys everything else.  So I suppose that is the solution.  Just curious if anyone else is having to do this?
Like I say... it certainly is no deal breaker... but it is there in the sustain... in just the upper bass region.... of certain models....  Cheers.

Last edited by Cellomangler (02-09-2021 04:22)
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Reply by Cellomangler

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

Ehhhh.... I'm certainly not worried about it.  Pianoteq let's you customize so much that it's easy to correct particulars to please an individual.
Right now I'm totally enjoying a morph I just created between the Bluethner and Erard.  No aliasing and a bit more "real" in the mids.  And I love this threesome:  52% Bluethner Cinematic - 18% Clavinet D6 Growl (modified) - 48% Erard Close.  Neat stuff.  I'm happy.

Last edited by Cellomangler (02-09-2021 04:29)
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Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

What you could be hearing is a common resonance artefact of the loudspeaker crossover.
Typically both the midrange and the tweeter are working hard at the opposing extremes of their working range around 1-4khz, and our hearing is most sensitive in that range too.

You could put a shallow dip in EQ to compensate.

Reply by budo

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

Cellomangler wrote:

Ehhhh.... I'm certainly not worried about it.  Pianoteq let's you customize so much that it's easy to correct particulars to please an individual.
Right now I'm totally enjoying a morph I just created between the Bluethner and Erard.  No aliasing and a bit more "real" in the mids.  And I love this threesome:  52% Bluethner Cinematic - 18% Clavinet D6 Growl (modified) - 48% Erard Close.  Neat stuff.  I'm happy.

could you upload FXPs?  these sound cool ...

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Reply by Cellomangler

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

Key Fumbler wrote:

What you could be hearing is a common resonance artefact of the loudspeaker crossover.
Typically both the midrange and the tweeter are working hard at the opposing extremes of their working range around 1-4khz, and our hearing is most sensitive in that range too.   You could put a shallow dip in EQ to compensate.

Thing is... I'm using Bose full range satellites with a sub... most of the time.  And I hear it with headphones though it's not as distracting.  Like I say, very easy to tweak to my taste by pulling down impedance in Note Edit mode, creating a dip in that region.  I'm afraid EQ would effect the attack and other aspects that I like just fine.  Who knows - it might be my fillings vibrating.
I should encourage folks to play around in the note edit mode if they ever find a certain keyboard range not quite to their liking.  Even though it's very subjective and our entire audio chain including our ears contribute, the bottom line is to get the sound that inspires.

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

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Reply by Cellomangler

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

budo wrote:

could you upload FXPs?  these sound cool ...

OK... they are in the FXP Corner under my user name.

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

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Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

Cellomangler wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:

What you could be hearing is a common resonance artefact of the loudspeaker crossover.
Typically both the midrange and the tweeter are working hard at the opposing extremes of their working range around 1-4khz, and our hearing is most sensitive in that range too.   You could put a shallow dip in EQ to compensate.

Thing is... I'm using Bose full range satellites with a sub... most of the time.  And I hear it with headphones though it's not as distracting.  Like I say, very easy to tweak to my taste by pulling down impedance in Note Edit mode, creating a dip in that region.  I'm afraid EQ would effect the attack and other aspects that I like just fine.  Who knows - it might be my fillings vibrating.
I should encourage folks to play around in the note edit mode if they ever find a certain keyboard range not quite to their liking.  Even though it's very subjective and our entire audio chain including our ears contribute, the bottom line is to get the sound that inspires.

Ah, Bose satellites, enough said.

http://liquidtheater.com/editorial_56.h...20speaker.
They do not give a remotely accurate picture of the sound by decent hi-fi or monitor standards. Basically you cannot judge fine details of Pianoteq's frequencies balance with those, even in the very best room. At least not to be sure of your criticisms.
I'm not saying you cannot judge a great plugin from a bad one, but Pianoteq is way past that stage.
Hopefully the headphones are more appropriate.

Reply by budo

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Re: Lower mid / upper bass aliasing / phasing / impedence artifact

Cellomangler wrote:
budo wrote:

could you upload FXPs?  these sound cool ...

OK... they are in the FXP Corner under my user name.

thank you!  awesome quote in your sig, btw ...

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