Topic: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

This is a request for future versions of Pianoteq, and one which hopefully is not too difficult to implement.

Many of us are interested in listening to what the piano would sound like as the tension and stiffness vary. What happens if we put thinner strings on a grand piano and lower the tension to get the same pitch, for instance? Or what happens if we somehow magically lower the string stiffness? The stiffness pretty directly changes the inharmonicity; the tension, though, is much more interesting...

I know that tension is somehow already built into the Pianoteq algorithm because when you do microtuning, it has the "String Tension" and "Full Rebuild" parameter. So that's one way to play with the tension right now, which is just to lower the pitch and keep it on "String Tension" mode. Of course, we would like to change the tension without also changing the pitch...

There are, of course other parameters - string diameter, wound/unwound, density, etc. Many of these directly change the inharmonicity and not much more. So we don't need to have every parameter. But it would at least be nice to change the tension and stiffness/inharmonicity, at least. Perhaps not even stiffness is necessary because "scale length" already does that. But tension would be very interesting. Could we add this to some future version?

Last edited by battaglia01 (15-06-2021 18:36)

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

The parameter is almost certainly built in, otherwise the historical pianos which notably have lesser string tension wouldn't be there. It would be interesting to see how that would change the sound if available. It could also be interesting to create an aged version of the instrument...

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

Thanks. Also, I've posted about this to Facebook's "Microtonal Music and Tuning Theory" forum, and we have quite a few +1's already:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4971050...;ref=notif

Some background on why this would be useful for microtonalists, trimmed from the post:

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There has been some interesting talk recently about building a microtonal piano... The basic idea is: microtonal chords seem to sound a little different on piano than on other instruments. One of the ideas we'd like to explore is if certain chords would blend better if the piano were tuned with thinner and lower-tension strings than usual, with maybe an extra string to make up for the volume different. This would reduce string inharmonicity, which is pretty extreme on the piano (the 11th harmonic is almost a half step sharp), although also part of the piano's characteristic sound.

Pianoteq is usually the best way to explore these hypotheses, so I've asked the developers if they can add customizable string tension as a feature in Pianoteq. They've already got it built in the program so the request is just to make them directly available for the user...

FWIW, I first got interested in this from talking with Rami Alsabti who is interested in developing a theory of polyphonic harmony for Arabic maqam music. But, I think it's also relevant even for the kind of Western xenharmonic/jazz type thing I'm doing on my YouTube channel, as I have definitely noticed that certain chords are much smoother on Rhodes than on piano. It would be very interesting to hear what it sounds like with lower tension strings...

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

Fantastic idea Mike. I have used Pianoteq for years now on my Axis 64, 17-tone Halberstadt and 12-tone Halberstadt midi controllers with pianos and electric pianos in all manner of tunings, and am using it all the time now with my Lumatone, and I have definitely been thinking about string tension, since the Aftertouch only works with string tension, not a full rebuild.

Would love to hear what a variety of string thicknesses, tensions, and number of strings per note sound like in various tunings, as I've noticed even with a single model without changing too many things, the "timbre" can radically shift on a piano just by changing the tuning or the balance of harmonics. The same sort of model of piano will sound rather different in meantone, pythagorean, superpyth, and harmonic series tuning. I'd be very interested in hearing modern instruments featuring less tension and/or thinner strings, more or less harmonicity, and the option to play around with those parameters, especially if they're already programmed in the back-end. The team have been so helpful already with their support for scala and mapping files, multi-channel support for large keyboards like the Lumatone... Looking forward to seeing how this develops.

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

Thanks for posting Cam, absolutely - being able to add another string per key would also be great. It would be very interesting to try lowering the tension and adding extra strings to see if a "reduced inharmonicity piano" would make certain microtonal chords blend much better...

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

I'm pleased to discover that one of my favorite microtonal tunings (27edo) sits rather comfortably with an unadjusted Steinway D piano sound's natural inharmonicity. Many other microtonal tunings are at war with classic piano tone, and I am also very curious to know whether different modelings could dial in the sweet spots for those tunings.

I would like to see what can be done to further extend physical modeling of electric piano sounds, since these also contain characteristic overtone strengths and inharmonicity. I'm not sure the extent to which tine length and stiffness and weight location and mass are reflected through the model's existing parameters. That might be a very tempting science experiment...

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

It's interesting to think about change string stiffness. I once requested a option to change the type of material the string was made, like sives strings or others.

But change tension... This affects the pitch, and keep the pitch while the tension it's not correspondent... Uhhnn. Not sur if it's possible or desired.

Anyway that's so many changes, that perhaps it's not viable, or would make Modartt crazy. Maybe the resourcess shoud be invested in new piano models and even more natural (for the ultra critic people) sound.

Last edited by Beto-Music (16-06-2021 14:53)

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

It's both possible and desired! And already in the model.

Re: Request: change string tension, stiffness, diameter, inharmonicity etc

I made a similar string customisation request a few months ago. Perhaps more will come on the same wavelength in the coming months?

Last edited by lowendtheory (17-06-2021 04:05)