Topic: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

In these hours of general confinement,
play in band remotely over internet with Pianoteq seems possible with free tools: Voice Meeter + Jamulus
but with a delicate setting: compromise between latency and good stereo audio quality.

Pianoteq + VoiceMeeter + Jamulus setting example:
link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3LNWGQRAp9nY12TX9

What audio quality to expect ? (in best conditions of remote reception on another PC)
With Jamulus, Audio quality can deteriorate very quickly due to unfavorable internet access conditions, or a server too far away.
Zoom visio stereo audio quality is better, but latency is higher with Zoom (difficult to play in band, perhaps Zoom servers too far from Europa ?)

link Jamulus ptq audio: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...sen200.mp3
For comparison link with Zoom visio remote PC ptq audio: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...etwork.mp3
In this test the "remote" PC is connected by cable to the internet box,
ditto for the sending PC which plays with pianoteq, as well as the PC playing the role of Jamulus server.

The limit of the test is that these PCs are all on the LAN so in favorable network conditions
(ping 1ms, while to join a server between 300 and 1500 km you have to add 15 to 25ms, nearly 60ms from western Europe to eastern US, and 350ms from Europe to Australia for example...  , above 19.44 ms for 1000 miles for a ping round trip)

Voice Meeter free software link: https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm  (used to connect Pianoteq to Jamulus, other possibility is Jack Port audio free software)
Jamulus free software link: https://github.com/corrados/jamulus/wiki

Bruno

Last edited by bm (03-05-2020 07:14)

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

Thanks for sharing !

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

My jazz quartet (drums, bass, piano, sax) has been using JamKazam to play together over the internet, with me on Pianoteq. Also free, it seems to use a peer-to-peer strategy to connect each of the players, instead of the client-server strategy used by Jamulus, so there is no server to set up and maintain. To keep total gear and internet latency down to 25ms or less, which feels acceptable for playing in sync, each player needs a direct Ethernet cable connection to internet modem/router (not WiFi), a low-latency audio interface, and fast internet service. We are fortunate that we all live within 20 miles of each other, so internet latency is not a problem, but I have joined JamKazam sessions up and down the US West Coast with success. It can sound like playing together in a recording studio, with headphones on.  Pristine sound. You can turn video on and off for chatting. JamKazam is a work-in-progress, and some bugs are still being fixed, but it has been wonderful for us.

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

TimN wrote:

My jazz quartet (drums, bass, piano, sax) has been using JamKazam to play together over the internet, with me on Pianoteq. Also free, it seems to use a peer-to-peer strategy to connect each of the players, instead of the client-server strategy used by Jamulus, so there is no server to set up and maintain. To keep total gear and internet latency down to 25ms or less, which feels acceptable for playing in sync, each player needs a direct Ethernet cable connection to internet modem/router (not WiFi), a low-latency audio interface, and fast internet service. We are fortunate that we all live within 20 miles of each other, so internet latency is not a problem, but I have joined JamKazam sessions up and down the US West Coast with success. It can sound like playing together in a recording studio, with headphones on.  Pristine sound. You can turn video on and off for chatting. JamKazam is a work-in-progress, and some bugs are still being fixed, but it has been wonderful for us.

Thank you for this information on JamKazam alternative !
In the case of JamKazam, is it necessary as for Jamulus to use a third party software to connect pianoteq (VoiceMeeter with Jamulus in my example), if this is the case, what is this intermediate software?

Bruno

Last edited by bm (03-05-2020 16:52)

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

bm wrote:

Thank you for this information on JamKazam alternative !
In the case of JamKazam, is it necessary as for Jamulus to use a third party software to connect pianoteq (VoiceMeeter with Jamulus in my example), if this is the case, what is this intermediate software?

Bruno

There is no need for additional software. JamKazam recognizes the inputs and outputs available in your audio interface, so any sounds your computer directs to your interface are available to your JK stream and to your headphones. Our group members have a variety of Macs and PCs and a variety of audio interfaces, and they all play nice with JK.

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

Tell me more about video in JamKazam please... I just want to play piano for another musician (violin), but I need to see him (her, in fact) to really play with him (her), to be able to follow the tempo changes...

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

Luc Henrion wrote:

Tell me more about video in JamKazam please... I just want to play piano for another musician (violin), but I need to see him (her, in fact) to really play with him (her), to be able to follow the tempo changes...

When you activate video in a JK session, it enables menus for control over video resolution, frame rate, adjusting sync of video to the audio, and more. You can designate an external video camera, or use the camera in your laptop.  You can record audio and video within JamKazam. Depending on internet traffic and the quality/bandwidth you have from your ISP, you may find that activating the video stream interferes with the quality of your audio stream, or that video lags too much from your audio stream to bring into synchrony without creating an uncomfortable lag for both. However, on a fast connection on a good day, it's like being in the same room. I am not an expert, but I think the advantage of the client-server model used by Jamulus is that everyone is on the same centralized clock provided by the server, while with the peer-to-peer connections, players can tend to adjust progressively to slight latency time lags back and forth, until they add up to a problem.  JK provides a distributed metronome that you can initiate at time zero, if this is an issue.  We've always remained synchronized enough that it's never been an issue.  However, unless you are on a dedicated network, I think you have to accept that latency will always be a little at the mercy of the particular routes the streams take through the internet. At present, it seems good for rehearsals and sessions, but not tight enough for professional live performances.

Re: Pianoteq in band remotely over internet with Voice Meeter + Jamulus ?

bm wrote:

In these hours of general confinement,
play in band remotely over internet with Pianoteq seems possible with free tools: Voice Meeter + Jamulus
but with a delicate setting: compromise between latency and good stereo audio quality.

Pianoteq + VoiceMeeter + Jamulus setting example:
link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3LNWGQRAp9nY12TX9

What audio quality to expect ? (in best conditions of remote reception on another PC)
With Jamulus, Audio quality can deteriorate very quickly due to unfavorable internet access conditions, or a server too far away.
Zoom visio stereo audio quality is better, but latency is higher with Zoom (difficult to play in band, perhaps Zoom servers too far from Europa ?)

link Jamulus ptq audio: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...sen200.mp3
For comparison link with Zoom visio remote PC ptq audio: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...etwork.mp3
In this test the "remote" PC is connected by cable to the internet box,
ditto for the sending PC which plays with pianoteq, as well as the PC playing the role of Jamulus server.

The limit of the test is that these PCs are all on the LAN so in favorable network conditions
(ping 1ms, while to join a server between 300 and 1500 km you have to add 15 to 25ms, nearly 60ms from western Europe to eastern US, and 350ms from Europe to Australia for example...  , above 19.44 ms for 1000 miles for a ping round trip)

Voice Meeter free software link: https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm  (used to connect Pianoteq to Jamulus, other possibility is Jack Port audio free software)
Jamulus free software link: https://github.com/corrados/jamulus/wiki

Bruno


Hi, I am trying the pinoteq, voicemeeter, jamulus, too. I am not able open your photo with config. Could you please publish it by another way?