Topic by xkuruma

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Topic: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Hey guys, I've been using pianoteq for a good while now, I've always used regular computer speakers to play. If I ever record my stuff it's usually done digitally and I export wave files.
Now I'm looking for a powered monitor/speaker that'll do some justice to the piano sound, that'll fill the living room, just something that's better than my built in digital piano speakers, which is a Kawai es110.

I've been looking into the Adam Audio T7V, Yamaha HS series, Kali audio LP6, JBL 308s, that price range.
My digital piano stand is pretty sturdy so I'm thinking I want to put the speaker behind the piano, facing up, á la upright piano or console type digital pianos.
What I have struggled with the most in the past, is the feeling of ímmediacy', I want it to sound like you're sitting in front of a real upright, sound close to you, fast responding, no delay. I've managed to do that with headphones but not quite with speakers.

I want something that still sounds full range but mostly has lots of detail in the mid treble and treble.
Will hook them up directly from my portable dac for now (3.5mm jack, no balanced connections yet)

Anyways, I'd appreciate any feedback you guys can give me

Thanks !

Last edited by xkuruma (08-10-2020 17:41)

Reply by Deyvidpetro

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Try looking at the new Tannoy Gold series. They are quite inexpensive but they have very good reviews. Inownna pair of the Tannoy Reveals. Tannoy are a solid name with good quality.

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Myself, I am planning maybe a pair:


https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/img/library/iloudmm/ikc-L-iloudmm_points_front.jpg


It comes in two (2) versions:


https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/img/library/iloudmtm/ikc-L-iLoudMTM_sx34_back_mic_HQ.jpg


Here’s part of a write up from MusicRadar about iLoud Micro Monitors as it appears within the IK MULTIMEDIA website.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Reply by aWc

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Well, I'll go with my standard post   , specially that I see you are in Toronto. I have been on the same quest as you , and finally found the speakers that work. They are the ART RM5, sold by Long and McQuade. Don't be fooled by their small size, they go down to 45Hz at -3dB. They come with stand, but can also be wall-mounted with a standard VESA mount (like for a flatscreen tv). That's what I did with mine. The mount allows for positioning the speakers in all directions. The built-in amp is very powerful and clean (300 watts rms). They have adjustments for wall proximity (bass roll off) and even bluetooth. I suggest that you go down to L & M and ask for a demo in one of their studios. Bring your favorite piano  and other CDs. This is what I did, as it is the only way to really have a good listen. II paid $600 cdn for mine. You can PM me if you need more details

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

aWc's Website

Reply by xkuruma

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Thanks all for the responses guys
The reason why I was looking at 7-8 inch woofer speakers was mainly for raw power/ full range sound, but I guess I'd have to try all of these out to get a real sense of them.

@aWc hey that's amazing haha, I live like 20min away from that store. I'll go have a look around this weekend. is that $600cdn for the pair or just one ?  Do you feel like the 5" woofer is enough for lower end piano notes ?

Reply by aWc

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

$600 for the pair. The 5" woofer is sufficient because it is combined to twin passive radiators on the sides of the enclosure. If you listen to a well recorded jazz record with a double bass part on the RM5, you'll see what I mean. Is your controller situated against a wall? I


xkuruma wrote:

Thanks all for the responses guys
The reason why I was looking at 7-8 inch woofer speakers was mainly for raw power/ full range sound, but I guess I'd have to try all of these out to get a real sense of them.

@aWc hey that's amazing haha, I live like 20min away from that store. I'll go have a look around this weekend. is that $600cdn for the pair or just one ?  Do you feel like the 5" woofer is enough for lower end piano notes ?

Last edited by aWc (09-10-2020 21:03)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

aWc's Website

Reply by IanL

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

I build my own speakers these days, mainly in order that I can concentrate on the mid-range. On one pair of speakers I use with PT I have two mid-range units on each side, one for the lower and the other for the higher mid. When I listen to PT or anything else through 2-way units (bass-mid and tweeter) I tend to find that the mid-range is poor. It's as if the speakers have been designed to be bass- and treble-heavy. It sounds very artificial to me. It's a shame that you seem to have to spend a lot of money on speakers to get ones with decent dedicated mid-range units. I'm sure it doesn't have to be like this but that's the fashion just now.

N1X - PT Pro - Linux

Reply by honjr

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

You might able to get a sound approaching that from a good set of headphones for under $600, but I am not aware of any speakers in that range that come close enough. Personally, I'd save my money for a really good set of passive monitors (possibly used) and a mid-level amplifier. With the actives, you run the risk that at least one of the monitors will malfunction.

Reply by xkuruma

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

aWc wrote:

$600 for the pair. The 5" woofer is sufficient because it is combined to twin passive radiators on the sides of the enclosure. If you listen to a well recorded jazz record with a double bass part on the RM5, you'll see what I mean. Is your controller situated against a wall? I

hey sorry for the delay, happy thanksgiving btw!
my piano is in a weird location, like 30cm off the wall, which has a big window above. So low frequencies may be accentuated because of that, I do wanna add a rug under it to eliminate some reflections, but also to have my pedal not slide around all over the place.

I didn't manage to get some time to go try out speakers but it'll happen soon enough

--
I've been playing with some sennheiser headphones to pretty good results in the past, but in this case I just wanted to have speakers so I could fill the room with sound.  I'm not too convinced about getting passives since that would just add more bulk, at least an amp/ stereo receiver, and I want this setup to be a bit more minimal.
Thanks everyone for giving their input!

Reply by karoloydi

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

xkuruma wrote:

Hey guys, I've been using pianoteq for a good while now, I've always used regular computer speakers to play. If I ever record my stuff it's usually done digitally and I export wave files.
Now I'm looking for a powered monitor/speaker that'll do some justice to the piano sound, that'll fill the living room, just something that's better than my built in digital piano speakers, which is a Kawai es110.

I've been looking into the Adam Audio T7V, Yamaha HS series, Kali audio LP6, JBL 308s, that price range.
My digital piano stand is pretty sturdy so I'm thinking I want to put the speaker behind the piano, facing up, á la upright piano or console type digital pianos.
What I have struggled with the most in the past, is the feeling of ímmediacy', I want it to sound like you're sitting in front of a real upright, sound close to you, fast responding, no delay. I've managed to do that with headphones but not quite with speakers.

I want something that still sounds full range but mostly has lots of detail in the mid treble and treble.
Will hook them up directly from my portable dac for now (3.5mm jack, no balanced connections yet)

Anyways, I'd appreciate any feedback you guys can give me

Thanks !

I'm waiting to receive my Adam T7V. I'll let you know. They are supposed to be very good at trebble due to the ribbon tweeter. Also they have amazing stereo imaging, but you will loose that if you position them facing upwards. They need to be at ear level facing you to get the best stereo image.

I was considering exactly the speakers you mentioned. Also I was considering Mackie MR624 in that price range. I think Mackie would be the better option for you. From what I heard in reviews, Mackies work very well even at low volumes, so might be more suitable for digital piano. Also, most of the speakers you mentioned, including the Adams have a Hiss noise. JBL I think are the worst in that. I have noisy fan computer noise that will drain it out. But if you have quiet room it might annoy you. Mackies dont have that problem.

Also you might need to test speakers with front facing bass port and back facing bass port to see what will work best. I think back port will be more similar to piano if you position them like you want.

Last edited by karoloydi (13-10-2020 19:42)

Reply by yufeifei

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

xkuruma wrote:

Hey guys, I've been using pianoteq for a good while now, I've always used regular computer speakers to play. If I ever record my stuff it's usually done digitally and I export wave files.
Now I'm looking for a powered monitor/speaker that'll do some justice to the piano sound, that'll fill the living room, just something that's better than my built in digital piano speakers, which is a Kawai es110.

I've been looking into the Adam Audio T7V, Yamaha HS series, Kali audio LP6, JBL 308s, that price range.
My digital piano stand is pretty sturdy so I'm thinking I want to put the speaker behind the piano, facing up, á la upright piano or console type digital pianos.
What I have struggled with the most in the past, is the feeling of ímmediacy', I want it to sound like you're sitting in front of a real upright, sound close to you, fast responding, no delay. I've managed to do that with headphones but not quite with speakers.

I want something that still sounds full range but mostly has lots of detail in the mid treble and treble.
Will hook them up directly from my portable dac for now (3.5mm jack, no balanced connections yet)

Anyways, I'd appreciate any feedback you guys can give me

Thanks !

I think you might consider the Kiperline portable monitor. It is powerful and inexpensive.
https://jp.kiperline.com/products/kl-sk...-9-monitor

Reply by klaberte

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Myself, I am planning maybe a pair:

It comes in two (2) versions:

Here’s part of a write up from MusicRadar about iLoud Micro Monitors as it appears within the IK MULTIMEDIA website.

I have the two-driver iLouds.  They serve as my guilty pleasure when traveling, which I (used to) do a lot.  While I love them, and they sound really good, I think that unless you really need a really small speaker (3" woofer), you would get more bang for the buck buying larger 5-8" woofer-sized speaker.  I have one pair of NHT speakers with 5" woofers on my home office desk, and a second pair of similarly-sized PSB's for my PianoTeq setup. Unless you want audio to blast through your whole house, speakers this sized are plenty.

There are so many great offerings in this space.  My current go-to recommendation are the CBM-170 ($300/pair) from Ascend Acoustics.  Hard to beat at that price. 

I also suggest keeping the amplification separate from the speaker, as almost any speaker is likely to outlast the relatively inexpensive amps that usually get installed in powered speakers.

Last edited by klaberte (06-02-2021 01:42)

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Personally, I need really small monitors.  My digital piano, iMac and M-Audio Studio Pro 4 (4” woofer) monitors are in a small kitchenette area.  I like them since the desktop computer, piano and monitors all are a silver color.  It is the same as Apple computers.

While the area is hardly one can imagine certainly as ideal, I may rely heavily upon my Focusrite Safire PRO 24 DSP (including VRM, Virtual Reference Monitoring), Waves NX, Abbey Road Studio 3 or Ocean Way Nashville with some Sony headphones equalizer compensated per my head dimensions.  Whenever I intend to upload a mix onto a media platform I’ve the interface and plugins, all of which can now allow me to mix more seriously than I’d previously.

I got my intended results anyhow from Abbey Road Studio 3.  Which afterwards seems to translate well over to the monitors and a smart TV with a sound bar and subwoofer.

Although already I have an ARC System (Acoustic Room Correction System) from IK Multimedia, I’ve yet honestly to set it up.

Anyway the smaller iLoud monitors might soon take a setup of very limited space from something somewhat cosmetically pleasant to one a better fit on the small kitchenette table where I got the iMac.  So, eventually I’ll maybe rely mainly on the Waves products and cross check mixes with the products from IK Multimedia:

https://youtu.be/1SDFLl6hI00

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Reply by eriks

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

I've bought a pair of used Yamaha NX-N500 speakers some months ago, they are related to the HS10 but supposed slightly more adjusted to Hifi-usage (cannot compare directly). They have a built-in DAC which is fed through USB by my Raspi 4.

Wow …

Reply by Kepijapa

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Sorry I am a bit late here, but I was testing my new setup, I would like to share the discovery; the Tozzi One from Markaudio-Sota, a small box with a centric full range driver. I was happy with my iLoud micromonitors, but they are absolutely not comparable to the beautiful sound I get out of the Tozzies.

You can get the Tozzi One from KJFaudio (or Madisound in US) as a DIY Kit for a set of small passive Hifi speakers with one small full range driver. Be careful, this is Audiophile DIY territory, but don’t worry, in fact you only have to screw a finished product together, it takes about 30 minutes.  Tozzies are very simple, just a driver in a box. But these carefully designed pure point-source speakers are an acoustic miracle. They look great standing on the piano too.

A good amplifier is required for good results. I am using them together with a Trends TA-10.2P power amp and an audioengine D1 DAC which also works as preamp/volume control. No hissing or rambling (iLouds), silence when you don’t touch anything really adds to the playing experience too.

This setup produces a big room filling sound with lots of dynamics, very detailed. It gives me a beautiful singing tone, like having a Steinway in my room (OK, I made that up, I never tried a Steinway). I can just play very softly or loud, and it sounds good, it is very fast and responsive.   It’s like playing… an acoustic.

Concerning frequency response, Specs say 80 Hz. I tested and they go more or less OK down to 70-60 Hz, even 40 Hz is audible, and they go certainly way up high enough. All this due to sophisticated very light design of the driver. This should actually be just OK for Acoustic piano. I certainly don’t miss bass.

Frequency range of pianos is explained in the book “Physics of the Piano” (N. Giordano,  New York: Oxford University Press, 2010). It is also measured here: https://rtaylor.sites.tru.ca/2017/01/05...-response/

Shortly you only need to reproduce the spectrum from 60 to 6000 Hz. Below 80 there is already very little going on.

You can hear the Tozzies  recorded  in a decent way here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FttJHA5dsIg (pianomusic starts at 9.45)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khtEODNU0gM

Reply by aWc

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

Kepijapa wrote:

Sorry I am a bit late here, but I was testing my new setup, I would like to share the discovery; the Tozzi One from Markaudio-Sota, a small box with a centric full range driver. I was happy with my iLoud micromonitors, but they are absolutely not comparable to the beautiful sound I get out of the Tozzies.

Interesting. In the video, in addition to the Tozzies, I see also what looks like a bigger speaker. Seems like it's not on the market yet? Would you know anything about it?

Last edited by aWc (17-03-2021 18:06)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

aWc's Website

Reply by Kepijapa

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Re: Speaker / Monitor recommendations ?

aWc wrote:
Kepijapa wrote:

Sorry I am a bit late here, but I was testing my new setup, I would like to share the discovery; the Tozzi One from Markaudio-Sota, a small box with a centric full range driver. I was happy with my iLoud micromonitors, but they are absolutely not comparable to the beautiful sound I get out of the Tozzies.

Interesting. In the video, in addition to the Tozzies, I see also what looks like a bigger speaker. Seems like it's not on the market yet? Would you know anything about it?

Hi aWc, you probably mean the Cesti MB. It is the same concept, with a bigger driver. Still goes way up high to 22 KHz or so, and now down to 40 Hz. You can see all these products at http://markaudio-sota.us/. Now I saw the Cesti MB much cheaper at KJF audio. There are several reviews, all quite positive. For me it  would be too big on top of my VPC1, maybe they are as big or bigger than the RM5s (Thought about those too).

If you are interested, there are several videos of Mark Fenlon explaining his driver designs (Alpair). I think the idea for the DIY Tozzi Kit was from a guy called Stephan at KJF  audio, but you can also buy it  fully assembled (slightly  different) at Mark-audio-Sota with also slightly different Sota drivers (and much more expensive).