Topic by songpoet

  • Avatar
  • songpoet
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-10-2017
  • Posts: 5

Topic: Pedal notes sound late

One issue I've come up with Organteq is something I can handle on an actual pipe organ but can't find any simple way to deal with using Organteq with my sequencer (DAW). If I play the pedal notes on a pipe organ at the same time I play the manuals the pedal notes will sound late. That is it takes longer for those lower notes to sound with the result that it sounds like I'm playing them later than I should be.  I adjust this by playing them earlier with my feet.  To make such an adjustment with Organteq I need to export the sequence as midi (I'm using PreSonus Notion which allows me to use notation to work with my sequences), import the midi file to Sonar, separate the channels into separate tracks, then Process|Slide the midi notes for the manuals (channels 13,12, and 15) forward 30 ticks (192 per quarter note or crotchet).

I've searched the options in Organteq and can't find anywhere to offset the timing of the Pedal.  It would be nice to be able just to specify the offset as -30 (or some other value) so that the actual sound of the Pedal notes are synchronized with the manuals.

Has anyone else had this problem?  Is there, perhaps, some setting I'm missing?

Reply by Pianoteqenthusiast

  • Avatar
  • Pianoteqenthusiast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-10-2013
  • Posts: 3,550

Re: Pedal notes sound late

songpoet wrote:

One issue I've come up with Organteq is something I can handle on an actual pipe organ but can't find any simple way to deal with using Organteq with my sequencer (DAW). If I play the pedal notes on a pipe organ at the same time I play the manuals the pedal notes will sound late. That is it takes longer for those lower notes to sound with the result that it sounds like I'm playing them later than I should be.  I adjust this by playing them earlier with my feet.  To make such an adjustment with Organteq I need to export the sequence as midi (I'm using PreSonus Notion which allows me to use notation to work with my sequences), import the midi file to Sonar, separate the channels into separate tracks, then Process|Slide the midi notes for the manuals (channels 13,12, and 15) forward 30 ticks (192 per quarter note or crotchet).

I've searched the options in Organteq and can't find anywhere to offset the timing of the Pedal.  It would be nice to be able just to specify the offset as -30 (or some other value) so that the actual sound of the Pedal notes are synchronized with the manuals.

Has anyone else had this problem?  Is there, perhaps, some setting I'm missing?


Hello songpoet!
”Has anyone else had this problem?”

Yes, but I feel it sometimes mostly in Principal 16 and Bourdon 16, not much in 8*. My friend, organist in 1971, had an pneumatic organ (old Walker) and he said it was impossible for him to play only the pedal part a bit earlier. So he played as not expecting to hear the sound, like to be in leading position all the time. If he listened to the sound he gradually played slower and people in church sang slower…….  But, it’s complicated to play only the pedal earlier. Well, they bought a new organ to church and then the problem was gpne.
In our case, I definitely keep Oganteq !    For me, after making over 100 recordings, it’s a very small ”problem” if a problem at all.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (31-01-2021 12:56)

Reply by songpoet

  • Avatar
  • songpoet
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-10-2017
  • Posts: 5

Re: Pedal notes sound late

Hi Pianoteqenthusiast,

Thanks for replying!

"But, it’s complicated to play only the pedal earlier." Yes, and the experience of playing an organ in a cathedral (with all that wonderful, extra reverb) actually drove me to listening to the sound of the organ instead of just playing.  The secret isn't playing the pedal earlier but playing the manuals late. The tweak I'm suggesting shouldn't be difficult to implement but without awareness of how much it can be a problem I'm not sure it will ever be addressed.  In electronic organs this is accomplished by shortening the attack. That approach would not be good for Organteq because it would violate the physics of the acoustics of the sound of the lower pipes.

One mark of a good organist (or other musician, for that matter) is to give "space" -- that is, allow the sound to finish after holding a note (or chord) before continuing.  Many otherwise good players just ignore the sound and play on.

BTW, I've really enjoyed hearing some of your uploads.  Thank you for sharing the music with us!

songpoet

Reply by Pianoteqenthusiast

  • Avatar
  • Pianoteqenthusiast
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-10-2013
  • Posts: 3,550

Re: Pedal notes sound late

songpoet wrote:

Hi Pianoteqenthusiast,

Thanks for replying!

"But, it’s complicated to play only the pedal earlier." Yes, and the experience of playing an organ in a cathedral (with all that wonderful, extra reverb) actually drove me to listening to the sound of the organ instead of just playing.  The secret isn't playing the pedal earlier but playing the manuals late. The tweak I'm suggesting shouldn't be difficult to implement but without awareness of how much it can be a problem I'm not sure it will ever be addressed.  In electronic organs this is accomplished by shortening the attack. That approach would not be good for Organteq because it would violate the physics of the acoustics of the sound of the lower pipes.

One mark of a good organist (or other musician, for that matter) is to give "space" -- that is, allow the sound to finish after holding a note (or chord) before continuing.  Many otherwise good players just ignore the sound and play on.

BTW, I've really enjoyed hearing some of your uploads.  Thank you for sharing the music with us!

songpoet


Thank you very much for your interesting thoughts,ideas. I’m sure Roman is reading this thread, so if something can be done, he will do it for sure.
And thank you for your kind comment enjoying some of my uploads. I’m very glad you like them. I have played so much baroque, that I’m now recording 
music from more recent composers, mid 1800s to mid 1900s, romantic, early 20th century….Some pieces have probably not been performed for a long time, so it might be unique that they can be heard in my thread ”Orgtq music in one place 2 (Pianoteqenthusiast)”. ”Stay tuned”, if interested in a rare growing music treasure and at the same time have a journey through history reading descriptions

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (02-02-2021 22:26)