Topic: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

Since using Pianoteq for a seminar this year on piano tuning http://hammerwood.mistral.co.uk/program...eminar.pdf I've been a bit busy tuning real pianos.

Pianoteq does something for pianos that most conventional piano tuners won't do - and that's to use unequal temperaments.

Unequal temperaments are really important to the instrument and this is very largely to do with the ability to get harmonics aligned with scale notes. This affects the way in which the sustaining pedal can be used. Both Chopin and Beethoven specified sustain to be held down for many bars. This requires different playing techniques to those commonly around nowadays, and ideally different tuning so that the sustain pedal doesn't create an almighty mush.

The result of mush from the sustain means that many pianists use the pedal with each note on each beat sometimes, as a matter of mere amplification of that note. This leads to what we call "vertical" playing, and the "line" of the melody is lost. So much music derives from singing, but fewer people sing nowadays, preferring ear-drugs fed with Beyoncé and the like. So we're losing the song in music. I used to think that every note on a Steinway interrupted the music. But then I discovered it wasn't the piano - it's the style of playing that results from the instrument not having provided the performer with reward for listening to the sound and finding beauty.

A senior professor at Trinity College of music tells me that often she has to ask pupils who come to her if they consider their piano to be their friend. She then asks them if they would hit their friend . . . And this summer I tuned for a concert given by a well acclaimed award winning young Korean pianist which was simply unpleasant in the manner in which he hit the piano.

Ancient pianos give the clue to Haydn for instance. Haydn should not be played staccato as so many do - it should sing. But all too often we hear abrupt notes that might just as well be Prokofiev. The ancient pianos didn't have good dampers . . . . so they sang and the sustain merely enhanced a little what the piano did by itself. The playing of modern pianos has to achieve the same effect.

It's for these sorts of reasons that cognoscenti who are running piano competitions are turning to a changed piano tuning that I do - based on Kellner but specifically adjusted for more resonance and high definition of the sound.

Nice this year was the first to do so and the result was a significant success.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnTDkj5dYYc was the gala concert and final for the concerto with orchestra. The orchestra were shocked to find that they and the piano, for the first time they'd experienced, were at the same pitch. As well as Sohyun Park and Solo Grand Prize winner Anri Manabe who shone, at the end of the video I've included the winner of the Junior prize, 8 year old David Martinescu from Romania. He played Bach superbly, and knowing what he could do and what the piano tuned by me could do for him, at the prize giving I asked him to play the piano as if it was the organ in a cathedral - with the whole piece with the sustain pedal down, on one pedal.

Having been given the clue, many performers adapted to the piano, used the sustain pedal for longer and more freely, and let their instrument sing.

Whilst users of conventionally tuned pianos can't do that so easily, Pianoteq users can set Well Temperament and have an idea of how the real instrument behaves a little, and practice with more sustain and singing to their playing.

Pianist Adolfo Barabino explains how one note should not interrupt the previous note in good phrasing and his masterclasses are transformatory https://www.adolfobarabino.com/masterclass .

Best wishes

David P

Re: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

Great info! But how do I tune the Piano for unequal temperament correctly? I'm assuming there is a method?

Re: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

Mk4UmHa wrote:

Great info! But how do I tune the Piano for unequal temperament correctly? I'm assuming there is a method?

With Pianoteq you can just choose "Well Temperament" or "Kirnberger III" on the temperament section.

If tuning a real piano, you can use Kellner on a tuning app on a mobile phone and if you tune the bass by ear you won't go far wrong. At the top end for the top two octaves, if you set the A which should be at 880 to 881 and then go up from there you won't be far wrong. I use other methods, but that's another matter.

Best wishes

David P

Re: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

David Pinnegar wrote:
Mk4UmHa wrote:

Great info! But how do I tune the Piano for unequal temperament correctly? I'm assuming there is a method?

With Pianoteq you can just choose "Well Temperament" or "Kirnberger III" on the temperament section.

If tuning a real piano, you can use Kellner on a tuning app on a mobile phone and if you tune the bass by ear you won't go far wrong. At the top end for the top two octaves, if you set the A which should be at 880 to 881 and then go up from there you won't be far wrong. I use other methods, but that's another matter.

Best wishes

David P

The concert was very pleasant to hear but 240p? Pre-war phone? (Stupid complaints apart) why not using the scala file with Kellner temperament instead? Shouldn't it be closer to the sound we hear?

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

The Well Temperament  built into Pianoteq is fine. The Scala file won't improve on it. Complications arise in real instruments due to inharmonics.

The ssound of Pianoteq is really excellent but the real instrument is a little more complex. Techniques have to be applied to cope.

Best wishes

David P

Re: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

Polemic, anyway interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01O1P6HmjD4

About training, pianoteq 7, now, it's closer than ever to a real grand piano, and now even better for training.

Re: Nice International Piano Competition -practising with Pianoteq helpful

Beto-Music wrote:

Polemic, anyway interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01O1P6HmjD4

About training, pianoteq 7, now, it's closer than ever to a real grand piano, and now even better for training.

The post isn't about piano competitions: it's about a recording of a real Fazioli tuned to Well Temperament.

Pianoteq is an accurate reproduction of the piano with many of the complexities of resonance and piano behaviour programmed in superbly, but the sound of the real instrument is still really complex. I'd be interested to hear the advance in Pianoteq 7 but in my experience with electronic piano simulation one has to go one step stronger in temperament to hear the same effects as a real instrument. So rather than Kellner Well Temperament I would recommend Kirnberger III. This isn't a criticism of Pianoteq. It's good. But one simply has to know how to handle the tool.

1860s and earlier instruments can handle stronger temperaments than Kellner as a matter of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2sFDSRYeIw demonstrates just how complex and really unpredictable resonating strings can be. Pianoteq is extraordinarily good but if any programmer can programme the resonance phenonomae demonstrated in that video it would be rather a miracle rather than something to be predicted or expected.

Best wishes

David P