Topic: Piano string model behaving inconsistently

When hitting a key, e.g. B5, one hears the sound decaying for over 30 secs.

When releasing the B5 damper (pressing the key very slowly; no sound is produced), and then hitting B3 (and releasing it, no pedal use), the B5 string is obviously excited by the B3 harmonic and starts to sound. However, the decay is now much faster, though there is no physical reason for these decays (between direct and indirect excitation) to be different.

Is this intended behaviour ? I would like the piano to behave as realistically as possible.

I used Steinway model B bright for this.

Re: Piano string model behaving inconsistently

subyekt wrote:

Is this intended behaviour ? I would like the piano to behave as realistically as possible.

I used Steinway model B bright for this.

Interesting question. Are you talking about audible resonance or actual resonance? I'm not a physicist, but isn't the amount of energy involved in the direct and indirect (sympathetic) resonance of a string very different resulting in a different duration of audibility to the human ear? Intuitively, i would expect a sympathetic resonating string's audible sound to die away sooner than the sound would if that string was actually hit by the hammer.
I find it always fascinating to hit a tone or a chord in PT with the damper (virtually) lifted and see the CPU still frantically busy calculating stuff long (sometimes minutes) after the tone has become inaudible (to me...).

Last edited by thiesdewaard (06-01-2021 15:11)

Re: Piano string model behaving inconsistently

I might be wrong since I haven't considered this before, but I suspect the behaviour is intended, and there appears to be a physical reason for the decays to be different.

Someone else may of course come along and answer straight off.. 

My thinking would be that a hammer struck note exhibits double decay, whereas it seems to me that sympathetic resonance would not.

Considering from Pg 26 - 29 here:

https://www.jjburred.com/research/pdf/b..._piano.pdf

the long decay time of an undamped note is achieved by the resonance behaviour of the struck string, and its energy exchange between strings and soundboard through the bridge. It relies on the development of out-of-phase string vibrations after the initial hammer strike, to give partial cancellations and couple less energy into the bridge, delivering slower attenuation of the tail of the note. The characteristic of a hammer strike is considered an important contributor to the string behaviour, delivering high but mechanically imperfect initial energy input directly to the strings, which is then coupled to the soundboard at a higher loss during the short initial in-phase string mode, but quickly changes to out-of-phase modes giving the double decay rate.

Sympathetic resonance works in the reverse manner, initial energy is coupled to the strings through the soundboard and bridge, and this will pass a small amount of energy into the strings in phase, which means the strings will vibrate in the high loss immediate sound mode, and attenuate more quickly.

If you listen to the tail of a struck and undamped note, you can hear the development of the out-of-phase resonance mode in the tail of the note. If you then keep the, say B5, note open and strike B3 as you've indicated, you'll hear the sympathetic B5, with a shorter tail, but no phasing, it is a unison note. It seems to me that this should attenuate faster.

The effect can be heard in all the PianoteQ models I have, but currently I don't have access to an acoustic piano to assess how accurately it resembles physical piano behaviour. Because of the vagaries of human hearing, that might be trickier to determine than listening to headphones!

Last edited by Platypus (06-01-2021 14:37)