More Wood Please.

I've been under the impression, any impression of wood was addressed effectively with the release of v.6.7.0 (2020/03/18).  That has a 'resonance equalizer added in the equalizer panel (Pianoteq STD and PRO)' from MODARTT.

Have you ruled out any likelihood of user error?  (Smile.)

To tell whether or not anyone can notice a sound of wood, specifically enough to comment about it, I purposely put up a YouTube post.

https://forum.modartt.com/file/14733a6x

My suspicion is, maybe a skillful mastering engineer is one who to decide if he's going to bring out the wood tones inherent in a solo piano mix.

Here's a version from the original preset of my above YouTube post, but without any artificial intelligence (A.I.) mastering one that which otherwise possibly can emphasize wood sounding tones in the piano recording:

https://soundcloud.com/user-75091580/pi...variations

(Incidentally, the YouTube version of this utilizes also an A.I. based reverb.)

I posted too a different example (below) of an earlier version (v.6) recording after I put it through some artificial intelligence mastering and got a result, with what I think might be plenty of wood sounding within that.  Well, it in my opinion is anyway:

I used the default preset without its limiter and reverb.  The latter which I replaced with the Illusion reverb from LiquidSonics.

The example above was altered from the original preset and its own reverb as recorded by the file below:

https://soundcloud.com/user-75091580/st...mic-preset

I really empathize with you about high frequencies.  Maybe they are of things to come.  Whenever I use sonible smartEQ2 an A.I. based equalizer, it raises high frequencies even higher than PIANOTEQ might already.  Although, you may always tame them with a high shelf.

Since I got Brainworx bx_refinement from Plugin-Alliance I use it whenever I want to eliminate the harsh highs from a piano mix.  Others use oaksound soothe.

Lately what's gotten my piano recordings to sound as expected, is my adjusting both PIANOTEQ VELOCITY, specifically NOTE-OFF, and Sound speed.  The default NOTE-OFF setting has been a note-off velocity of 127.  Which made any playing appear unnatural since my keyboard sends a fixed note-off velocity of only 65.  Consequently, I had to lower the Note-off velocity map.  Sound speed I'm beginning to raise as I want a listener to have an impression of a real warm and humid studio.  Also Sound speed seems to remove some harshness present.

A default Sound speed is maybe fine for European settings, but I'm a resident of southern California where people usually get a lot of warm sunshine and are maybe accustomed to local music you can hear in a club or at an opened air concert within a jazz festival or the Hollywood Bowl.

EDIT: 0 appears displayed within Options and as transmitted by my keyboard, while on a main interface under NOTE-OFF a white indicator line shows about 65.

The pianosteq's Kremsegg collection have the woodest sound, in my opinion.

The modern instruments always had less woodness than vintage ones in pianoteq, but it's probably just as things are in real world.

Many people loved the Kremsegg's Bechstein:

https://www.modartt.com/kremsegg2

Virtual coiled springs might counter the impression of a sponge.  (Smile.)  Have you demoed Springbeats’ VelPro?  It allows individual note velocity adjustments.

Seriously Beto-Music, if only a middle register feels spongy, all the note velocities within it are adjustable independently of the other note velocities whenever VelPro is used to map its velocities.

That even comes recommended by a MODARTT Forum Administrator!

And, that when combined with individual note parameter edits afforded by PIANOTEQ PRO could readily remedy all of Deyvidpetro’s woes, unless they’re of course from geriatrics.

Well, this have been said before, but I got a little bit more warmth and a fuller sound by moving my furnitures, and getting a soft couch in my little ”studio”. And I finally learned to change settings on my monitors. There is the option to change the acoustic space of the speakers between three settings depending on my speaker placement. This helped me smooth out the sound experience a bit. The nobs on my speakers were not just nobs, I found the acoustic space settings to be useful. I have the speakers in corner so the acustic space button cuts the level of all frequencies below 800Hz by the specified amount (-2 or -4dB) to compensate for the bass boost because of placed near corner.
I did not think it would work with such cheap speakers (Presonus Eris E5). But, I got better sound, but remember, not all ”studios” are the same. (hope I got this right in english

PIANOTEQ has a new parameter.  That might directly address your concern, Deyvidpetro.  The new parameter is Attack Envelope!  I’m using it right now to listen to a folder of MIDI XP made from a young person’s performances at the Piano-e-Competition in 2018.  Man, what an incredible difference it makes!  I suggest you do like Bugs and hop right on it...

Have any any thoughts?

I believe it would be a great experiment if we could put people with a given issue in some aspect of pianoteq, to play in other systems (midi controll speakers, settings etc...) and see how they react, check the issue would be gone. Also check if people with no issue about pianoteq would get a issue or not, while playing other systems than not their own.

I wonder how attack envelope works, if it changes the mass or the shape of the virtual hammers.

Constructive critics are always welcome. It's important to have people like you, who acknowledge pianoteq advanced qualities, but able to spot the little tiny characteristics that many others can no longer notice. That's the difference from you to the haters, as haters only see a characteristi, even than super tiny, and ignores all the whole range of great qualities.

I presume Modartt could had made like V-piano (not very trully modelled), and use some few samples to try to get different attacks, but if they had done that, it would be a problem to refine modeling engine and reach the high end product they have today. So, I presume they prefered the difficult way instead of the easy way, since the easy way would lead to future problems.

I listened to keyscape demos, and I found it to lack the life and beautiful of pianos acoustics and ressonanes. Well, that typical "sampled feeling", despite very well recorded. ANd they don't mention piano the brands.
If I was a developer of sampled instruments, I would create a piano sample also able to allow the user to choose what sample to use, (attack, sustein, key decay (legato & staccato). This would allow to mix with other instruments and softwares. I bet it would atract many technoholics.

Where I can I find that? I have the newest version and couldn't find it

Edit: Nevermind, in the per note edit panel . I will check that out, thanks!

Maybe this is OS-dependent, but I find in Linux that Attack Envelope is available by right-clicking on the volume slider which opens a small dialog box, and selecting "Note Edit".   Control clicking with left mouse button is for midi-learn.
Also, in Pianoteq 7.1.0 there seems to be a bug/feature in the note edit that when you load an FXP the "reset" button is always greyed-out and inactive.  All the note editing options have reset disabled.   You can reset the edits by loading any standard preset and then reloading the FXP.

The Attack Envelope effect is quite striking.  Adding a little makes Pianoteq sound like a violin or reed organ.

Uhhnnn...???

If I increase the yellow bar the attack get different, less pronounced, more like a bow instrument if you increase more than a little bit. That's a problem, it's too sensible if we think in the adjust around piano sound and not as a adjust to create sounds of other isntruments.

Thanks.

I completely agree with the OP. As amazing as PTQ is, there is definitely some fullness/body missing in some way to most of the pianos. Yet, I still love them.

I was unable to discern any difference at all between the right-side envelope slider all the way up, or all the way down.

While I have tinnitus, I feel like I still have a very good ear for detail and nuance, and following your instructions with an A/B comparison, I heard no discernible difference. Either I'm doing something wrong, the sliders in my installation don;t work, or you're hearing something that isn't there! I really want to hear a difference, or what you're hearing.  If you feel like it, maybe make an A/B recording and notate when you make the switches back and for so it becomes obvious what I should be hearing, and use a clip with either constant velocity repeating notes, or something where I'm not fighting the nuances of the volume and melody to hear technical sound differences.

I first tried your example 1 and found no difference. What difference are you hearing by pulling the yellow arrow slider all the way to to 10 across the board?
But yes of course example 2 produces a result like a violin or synth sound, definitely the opposite of what I would want to achieve haha.

The more I get back into it and play and adjust things, the more body I get from the pianos. It really depends on getting all the parameters adjusted properly, but it can come together in a really great way.

We need such balance, between people who loves pianoteq a lot and people who still have some inquires about the sound.
That's what keep motivating Modartt to always get better and better. Too much praise to pianoteq would make Modartt feel too confortable, while too much critics would damage their self esteem.

I like to put things this way: Pianoteq it's vey good, lovely and versatile, and will be even better a year later.

--

Not sure if Amen Ptah Ra see or suggested Philippe as a Wizard of Oz of piano music. I always imagine most people see hin as Aladdin's genius, as they are always making countless wishes:

I think what the problem for me really is, is how "smacky" and nasally the hammer attacks sound at mid/high velocities (some pianos are worse than others, looking at you, K2 upper midrage). This is what the OP is probably referring to by "more wood", reducing the artificial/metallic smacking sound of the hammers. You can tweak this out, to an extent, but I feel that in doing so, you lose some detail in the effort to mellow out the nasal tone.

I think the metal sounds, like from the piano's harp, are way more natural now in pianoteq than was years ago.
Some people may still notice some little hint of what you say, but most people today find pianoteq very good, much better than earlier versions.