I would like to listen to some opinions from somebody that has played keybeds the Korg RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3), the Natural Weighted Hammer Action and the old RH2, preferably along with Pianoteq.
I appreciate your opinions in the subject.
Best wishes
I would like to listen to some opinions from somebody that has played both keybeds the Korg RH3 (Real Weighted Hammer Action 3) and the Natural Weighted Hammer Action, preferably along with Pianoteq.
I am in the search of new 88 keys controller and think I will go with Korg.
I appreciate your opinions in the subject.
Best wishes
I've been thinking of part exchanging my P515 for a KORG D1 so I'd also like some feedback please
Warmest regards,
Chris
Just found this very positive thread on pianoworld http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads....800/1.html
My old Korg has the RH3 - I don't know if RH3 was revised.
the "hammers" are directly connected to the keys (I believe like many digital keyboards)
AND the hammers hit a rubbery pad - this makes the keys bounce under your fingers.
(I thought why would they to that and one idea I had is that it is to help the fast key repetition)
I don't like it and I don't recommend it.
I had the Korg Oasys 88 (RH2) years ago and it was very sensitive, I recorded very sensitive piano passages with Pianoteq5 with a level of expression in my playing that with the controllers I have currently I am unable to emulate. I have the Yamaha ModX8 (GHS) which is OK and the Roland A-88 mk2 PHA-4 which is one of the worst I ever had. With the Yamaha I can make some decent recordings with Pianoteq but not with the level of expression I achieved long ago with the RH2. With the Roland I play like an amateur as the sensors don't seem accurate at all leading to unexpected sounds in my playing.
So I am very interested in listening to some opinions from fellow Pianoteq players about the Keybed action and the quality of the sensors from the newer Korg Keybeds.
Negative on that, I skipped it an bought the MK23 88 and I'm way happier with it, it doesn't have the spongy feel at the bottom. It's pricy but very worth it especially for the High Res MIDI that Pianoteq can interpret. It actually made the piano sound a lot more realistic.
Negative on that, I skipped it an bought the MK23 88 and I'm way happier with it, it doesn't have the spongy feel at the bottom. It's pricy but very worth it especially for the High Res MIDI that Pianoteq can interpret. It actually made the piano sound a lot more realistic.
I need a little more information about your post ....
You say "Negative on that"
I ask .... Negative on what ?
You say "I skipped it"
I ask .... You skipped what ?
You say "an bought the MK23 88"
I ask .... What is that ?
Thanks
...
Roland A-88 mk2 PHA-4 which is one of the worst I ever had
...
So I am very interested in listening to some opinions from fellow Pianoteq players about the Keybed action and the quality of the sensors from the newer Korg Keybeds.
I used to have a PHA-50 (without Pianoteq) I found it good.
on my RH3 I had to up the volume on all the black keys I didn't notice that before Pianoteq - anybody did the same?
Don't waste your time with the digital key beds on the market if you're serious about touch. So skip them and buy the one made by Friedrich Lachnit, there's no spongy bounciness basketball feel when you're trying to play lightly. You'll thank me later, tell him I sent you.
http://www.flkeys.at/home.html
Mk4UmHa wrote:Negative on that, I skipped it an bought the MK23 88 and I'm way happier with it, it doesn't have the spongy feel at the bottom. It's pricy but very worth it especially for the High Res MIDI that Pianoteq can interpret. It actually made the piano sound a lot more realistic.
I need a little more information about your post ....
You say "Negative on that"
I ask .... Negative on what ?
You say "I skipped it"
I ask .... You skipped what ?
You say "an bought the MK23 88"
I ask .... What is that ?
Thanks
I own a Korg D1, with the RH3 action. This action has been around for a long time, but it has been thoroughly revised since the first version. I took my version apart completely, and contrary to Antionio's experiences (he might have an old version of the action) the hammers do not 'hit' the sensors directly. The hammers add weight (varying from more to less across the keyboard) and feel. In general the RH3 is considered an excellent action. It's also used in the much more expensive Kronos line, making the D1 a very affordable midi controller with a quality action, for PIanoteq. I play a lot of classical music on it, from Bach to Bartok and back.
Having said that, I found the action a tad on the heavy side for my liking, so I added 2 x 5grs of weight (small car wheel balancing weights) in each key (invisible), and now i'm very happy with it. But again, even without that tweaking, the RH3 is considered a very well made (steel base), natural feeling action.
My old Korg has the RH3 - I don't know if RH3 was revised.
the "hammers" are directly connected to the keys (I believe like many digital keyboards)
AND the hammers hit a rubbery pad - this makes the keys bounce under your fingers.
(I thought why would they to that and one idea I had is that it is to help the fast key repetition)I don't like it and I don't recommend it.
The RH3 action was introduced over a decade ago, and had some initial problems. It was revised thoroughly since then, and the new version is considered a very good action. I own it in the Korg D1. I took it apart completely, and the 'hammers' do not hit a rubbery pad (in fact they don't hit anything at all). The velocity sensors are pressed directly by the key; the 'hammer' mechanism only adds weight, and a more natural feel when pressing down the key. The varying weight of the hammers also provides the graded weighing of the keys across the board.
Antonio M wrote:My old Korg has the RH3 - I don't know if RH3 was revised.
the "hammers" are directly connected to the keys (I believe like many digital keyboards)
AND the hammers hit a rubbery pad - this makes the keys bounce under your fingers.
(I thought why would they to that and one idea I had is that it is to help the fast key repetition)I don't like it and I don't recommend it.
The RH3 action was introduced over a decade ago, and had some initial problems. It was revised thoroughly since then, and the new version is considered a very good action. I own it in the Korg D1. I took it apart completely, and the 'hammers' do not hit a rubbery pad (in fact they don't hit anything at all). The velocity sensors are pressed directly by the key; the 'hammer' mechanism only adds weight, and a more natural feel when pressing down the key. The varying weight of the hammers also provides the graded weighing of the keys across the board.
Thanks for your reply. Beside the keybed action. Have you found any difference in latency by playing the D1 with a midi to USB interface vs a dedicated keyboard with a USB midi interface built-in?
I am very tempted to get the D1 as my master Keyboard for my piano playing but I am concerned about the extra latency that the necessary midi to USB interface may add.
I took it apart completely, and the 'hammers' do not hit a rubbery pad (in fact they don't hit anything at all). The velocity sensors are pressed directly by the key
? Is the mechanism of the Korg D1 not the same as in this Demo ?
I am very tempted to get the D1 as my master Keyboard for my piano playing but I am concerned about the extra latency that the necessary midi to USB interface may add.
I have the D1 connected to a pretty old (2013) MacbookAir, using a mid-to-usb cable, and it works perfectly fine, no latency whatsoever. I play a lot fast stuff (Bach for example) and upc-demanding stuff (Bartok, lots of bass with the sustain pedal down for entire systems on end), and there is no latency. The Bartok bass bars make the cpu overload very briefly sometimes, but that's to do with the old cpu.
The signal from the piano needs to be converted somewhere from midi to usb, and I don't think it makes any difference whether that happens inside the piano itself through a the built-in interface, or in a mid-to-usb cable outside the piano, which is essentially also an interface.
I am very tempted to get the D1 as my master Keyboard for my piano playing but I am concerned about the extra latency that the necessary midi to USB interface may add.
I have the D1 connected to a pretty old (2013) MacbookAir, using a mid-to-usb cable, and it works perfectly fine, no latency whatsoever. I play a lot of fast stuff (Bach for example) and upc-demanding stuff (Bartok, lots of bass with the sustain pedal down for entire systems on end), and there is no latency. The Bartok bassy bars make the cpu overload very briefly sometimes, but that's to do with the old cpu, I'm still saving for a bit newer system to do Bartok justice.
The signal from the piano needs to be converted somewhere from midi to usb, and I don't think it makes any difference whether that happens inside the piano itself through a the built-in interface, or in a mid-to-usb cable outside the piano, which is essentially also an interface.
By the way, perhaps its worthwhile to mention that the D1 does not register note-off velocity. Note-off is always fixed at 64. I don't know how many digital pianos actually have note-off velocity, and it doesn't bother me while playing, but you should be aware. The D1 does accept a gradual damper pedal (so 1-127 steps instead of just on-off) , but you need a pedal that can do that (the included pedal annoyingly doesn't, it's just on-off). I bought Korg's own half-damping pedal (DS1H) and that works great.
thiesdewaard wrote:I took it apart completely, and the 'hammers' do not hit a rubbery pad (in fact they don't hit anything at all). The velocity sensors are pressed directly by the key
? Is the mechanism of the Korg D1 not the same as in this Demo ?
Yes, it is. I thought Antonio was referring to the rubber sensor pads, which are pressed directly by the key, not by the hammers.
The hammers are stopped by the small felt white-with-black padding (not rubber) that you see in the demo, so I should nuance my statement that they're not hitting anything at all somewhat. But the entire mechanism of course needs to padded by something (that also happens an a real piano), otherwise you get a very loud banging action (and fast wear). Maybe the damping pad on Antonio's older version was made of rubber, the present one isn't.
You also see a bigger white felt pad directly under the keys at the front. That is not hit when playing normally, the key only reaches it when play really hard. This is also not rubbery. But the first stop the mechanism meets is the small felt one for the hammers.
Yes, it is.
Ok, thanks.
I thought Antonio was referring to the rubber sensor pads, which are pressed directly by the key, not by the hammers.
Take a closer look! It is the hammer shank, that presses the rubber contact. Same principle as in a Kawai ES8/ES920.
The hammers are stopped by the small felt white-with-black padding (not rubber) that you see in the demo, so I should nuance my statement that they're not hitting anything at all somewhat.
It seems to be a composite material with layers of felt and foam. Can you confirm this? All fotos I found were not 100% clear in this regard.
thiesdewaard wrote:Yes, it is.
Ok, thanks.
thiesdewaard wrote:I thought Antonio was referring to the rubber sensor pads, which are pressed directly by the key, not by the hammers.
Take a closer look! It is the hammer shank, that presses the rubber contact. Same principle as in a Kawai ES8/ES920.
thiesdewaard wrote:The hammers are stopped by the small felt white-with-black padding (not rubber) that you see in the demo, so I should nuance my statement that they're not hitting anything at all somewhat.
It seems to be a composite material with layers of felt and foam. Can you confirm this? All fotos I found were not 100% clear in this regard.
Yes, the hammer shank sits directly under the key, and is pressed with the key. What I meant was that there isn't some large pivotal increase in movement that makes the hammer hit some rubbery thing. Anyway, the picture says it all.
Regarding the material, I can't confirm this - I would have to open the piano again to check, and that's a little complicated.
The RH3 action [...] had some initial problems. It was revised thoroughly since then[...]
Thank you, I tried to find any information on this before my original post but failed...
[...]
Yes, it is. I thought Antonio was referring to the rubber sensor pads, which are pressed directly by the key, not by the hammers.
The hammers are stopped by the small felt white-with-black padding (not rubber)
[...]
In my version of the RH3 the hammers do hit the "white-with-black" padding. I don't know if it's rubber (*) or not but for sure it's really, really bouncy - might have become like that over the years, I don't know. I just have this keyboard for 2 years now but it is way older than that.
My version of RH3 is so bad that I think it was a mistake that Korg didn't rename the new version.
(*) I opened the Korg keyboard in the hope I could improved it as I did with a Yamaha I had.
In the Yamaha the hammers where stopped by a felt strip and the felt become compressed where the hammers hit. Yamaha sells a replacement felt strip but just shifting it made the hammers hit a different part of the felt strip and worked like new. DO NOT do this procedure yourself. I did NOT removed and replied the felt strip, I was smarter than that.
I have a VPC1, a Korg Grand Stage, AND a second hand very old Korg M50-88. Both of them have the RH3.
It is so, that even this very old ( some 8 years) Korg keybed functions flawlessly, even whie in its former life it was used on stage by a rock-group!!
I find it at times more pleasurable to play compared with the VPC, as it is just slightly lighter. the KORG velocity curve 9 has such a wonderful sensible and repeatable touch in the low region......I like it a lot.
Of course, it is not a wooden imitation of the real thing, so the purists on this forum can have their arguments.....let them be!
greetings from the Netherlands and I wish you all a healthy 2021......
Hi there,
last year I owned a Korg SV-2S 73 for 6 months, then a Korg Grandstage73 for 2 months. At this time I did not use Pianoteq.
I did not like the RH3 keybed at all because even trying all touch curve setting, I totally missed finesse when playing lightly.
At the same time I still had my old Korg Havian 30 with it's Fatar TP/100LR keybed and it was so fantastic to play subtle on it.
Today I own a Roland FP-90X and it's PHA-50 keybed is amazing. !
To my opinion, the KORG RH3 keybed is ok if you play hard on stage, but you will have no chance to transmit all your expressivity and subtility in your play.
Funny I had the Havian 30 and gave it to my grandson; for me its touch was too light.....
I pity that you could not test the RH3 with Pianoteq...Perhaps ( on the GrandStage) you had the dynamics knob turned on?? It reduces the dynamic range for getting thorgh the mix when on stage. Fr Pianoteq you need to use curve 9. Greetings!
Hi there,
last year I owned a Korg SV-2S 73 for 6 months, then a Korg Grandstage73 for 2 months. At this time I did not use Pianoteq.
I did not like the RH3 keybed at all because even trying all touch curve setting, I totally missed finesse when playing lightly.
At the same time I still had my old Korg Havian 30 with it's Fatar TP/100LR keybed and it was so fantastic to play subtle on it.
Today I own a Roland FP-90X and it's PHA-50 keybed is amazing. !
To my opinion, the KORG RH3 keybed is ok if you play hard on stage, but you will have no chance to transmit all your expressivity and subtility in your play.
I agree that the main problem with RH3 is the difficulty to control soft dynamics. I have a custom "S" shaped curve for it in Pianoteq, but I'm not completely pleased with it.
I have LP-380U with RH3 action.
It works really well with Pianoteq.
The action is definately not bouncy. When I was testing different keyboards, I tried ES110. This was really bouncy.
The action is also quite linear. I can't find any issue playing softly.
The only thing that annoys me is that it's a bit clicky.
I have the Korg C1 Air I love the feel of its RH3 keybed, particularly the slight let-off sensation which others might describe as clicky. It really feels nice under my fingers, though I'd appreciated a wooden and/or matte finish on all keys.
As for controlling dynamics, I agree it's kind of difficult, but I believe it's ultimately down to my weak technique.
RobertS,
as you can read, concerning keybeds, it's totally a matter of taste and personal feeling. You have to test it, and feel if you like it or not. It can correspond to the way you play, or not...
I think it's important to find the right keybed for you, it's really the interface between your heart and the sounds.
P.S: I apologize for my limited english