Lachenmann Sostenuto Pedal technique

If I got right youdescribed a reverse effect, like insted of it sustein keys that was already press when you apply sustein, it will act only in the keys pressed after apply sustenudo pedal.

He could keep the basic 4 pedals layout, and have extra option of pedal effect to choose.
Some historic pianos in pianoteq, the original pianos, had some excentric peda effects not available in pianoteq.

One interesting pedal effect would be a impossible feature in real world of pianos, a pedal able to allow just the sympathetic ressonance sound to be produced, while the notes striked would be silent about just for that particular hammer strike effect. Like in the video Piano as you never heard before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHWex94-mHg

Ok, look at 3:51 in the video.

He strike a C note, keep sustein pressed, and manually damped the C note he striked, keeping just the sympathetic ressonance sounding around.

In pianoteq we could, in theroy if create such tool/pedal, even avoid the initical C strike (before C be damped) and create just the resulting sympathetic ressonance effects/sounds. It would be a very nice chorus (if wished in full intensity) of sympathetic ressonance. Like the video shows, it can be similar to a chorus, very "celestial" feeling.
We could even all it Sympathetic Chorus Effect.

jrsv wrote:

Hello Forum,

I am wondering if there is a way to make pianoteq respond to resonances with the sostenuto pedal the way it is used in contemporary music like in Helmut Lachenmann pieces. What Lachenmann does is he "activates" the sostenuto pedal with no sound, this means that the keys are lowered with out producing sound before "locking" them with the sostenuto pedal. Afterwards, whatever is played wil resonate the chord with out activating their own sostenuto.
Is this posible in Pianoteq? Any ideas on how one would do this?

any help will be deeply appreciated

Unless I'm missing something, the answer is very simple: while using Pianoteq, silently press down (i.e. with very low velocity) the keys you want to let resonate, then press down the sostenuto pedal and you are done.

Of course you need to have a pedal device triggering the Pianoteq sostenuto pedal, which is done by default if you have a triple pedal. If not, you can achieve it by assigning Pianoteq's sostenuto to your pedal: right click on Pianoteq's sostenuto pedal, click on the dropdown menu where it is written "Controller 66", select "Assign MIDI Event", and press down your pedal. Then, when pressing down you pedal device, you should see Pianoteq's sostenuto pedal (third pedal from the left) moving down.

jrsv wrote:

this is how I initially aproached it, but doesnt the sostenuto pedal "catch" the other notes?

No, it catches only those notes that were depressed (silently or not) before pressing down the sostenuto pedal, that's exactly the purpose of that pedal.

(If it catched all other notes, it would then simply be the normal sustain pedal )

Also, BTW clicking the pedal on the interface can "lock it" down for the duration of a performance, without needing to keep a foot on a pedal.

I have a piece where I use the pedal as described - it definitely works as intended.

jrsv wrote:

Qexl wrote:

Also, BTW clicking the pedal on the interface can "lock it" down for the duration of a performance, without needing to keep a foot on a pedal.

I have a piece where I use the pedal as described - it definitely works as intended.

I found out what was going on with my first attempt and I just needed to be sure to tick on the "ignore the sustain pedal" in the sostenuto pedal preferences.

now its working like expected

I am surprised that this was the reason of the extra sympathetic resonances. The effect of checking "ignore the sustain pedal" is to allow to load in the sostenuto pedal only those keys being pressed down even if the sustain pedal has been pressed down (which is impossible on a real piano, where pressing down sostenuto after sustain loads all notes in the sostenuto).

jrsv wrote:

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

I am surprised that this was the reason of the extra sympathetic resonances. The effect of checking "ignore the sustain pedal" is to allow to load in the sostenuto pedal only those keys being pressed down even if the sustain pedal has been pressed down (which is impossible on a real piano, where pressing down sostenuto after sustain loads all notes in the sostenuto).

No, my problem was the other way around, I had Sostenuto with some notes held, but further on if I applied the normal sustain, new notes would lock with the sostenuto.

Ah, sorry, I misread your post, silly me, I thought you had it unchecked, it is clear now.
So you are aware you are using the sostenuto in a way which is impossible in the real world? (but quite convenient I find).

jrsv wrote:

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Ah, sorry, I misread your post, silly me, I thought you had it unchecked, it is clear now.
So you are aware you are using the sostenuto in a way which is impossible in the real world? (but quite convenient I find).

No, I dont think that is right, but of course you are making me doubt it all...
1. Press down Keys, with sostenuto,
2. maintain that sostenuto and keep playing,
3. new notes, are played and normal sustain is applied,
4. remove the sustain and the sostenuto keys are still undamped.

For producing what you describe, you do not need to check "ignore the sustain pedal".
(Note: your 1. should be more precisely: 1. Press down Keys, then press sostenuto,)