Topic: Sustain pedal sounds E

Hi all,

I'm on the point of purchasing pianoteq - I'm really impressed with it - however I've a problem in my setup in that when I depress the sustain pedal (remove dampers) it produces a very loud E (E above middle C.)

My setup:
piano is a yamaha N1
MIDI cable is a CHORD MIDI to USB (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chord-USBMC-chord-USB-Midi-Interface/dp/B001FW063I/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=F6ZGE71YTRY4T5GXFH8Y)
computer is a 2014 macbook pro running OS Catalina
Pianoteq is latest demo version.

Many Thanks!

Steve

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

You might have to do most of the troubleshooting yourself, since other persons' keyboard, MIDI and computer gear and setup may differ from your own.

You might try to trace (determine) the MIDI messages sent from your sustain pedal to the Yamaha N1, and check the settings in the N1 regarding its sustain pedal input (if the N1 has some internal menus and user interface), and use a computer app to monitor the MIDI messages sent from the N1 to your computer and Pianoteq. Open Pianoteq Options --> MIDI, press the sustain pedal, and check which MIDI message is being received by Pianoteq.

If you provide more detailed and specific information as you troubleshoot the situation, you might receive more appropriate suggestions.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (20-07-2020 19:58)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

smcclue wrote:

Hi all,

I'm on the point of purchasing pianoteq - I'm really impressed with it - however I've a problem in my setup in that when I depress the sustain pedal (remove dampers) it produces a very loud E (E above middle C.)

My setup:
piano is a yamaha N1
MIDI cable is a CHORD MIDI to USB (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chord-USBMC-chord-USB-Midi-Interface/dp/B001FW063I/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=F6ZGE71YTRY4T5GXFH8Y)
computer is a 2014 macbook pro running OS Catalina
Pianoteq is latest demo version.

Many Thanks!

Steve

Perhaps you just inadvertently changed the MIDI settings either inside the demo software or from your keyboard controller or both.

Be sure especially whenever you’re demoing PIANOTEQ software for the first time, to have both your controller and the software of course likewise set at default settings.

You’re going to have to have selected PIANOTEQ presets unmodified (without an italicized preset name showing) and its Global MIDI Mapping in the Options pane set to Minimalistic.

This way is probably best to demo.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (23-07-2020 18:12)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Have found a bit more info about this problem.

I am using MIDI mappings set to minimalistic, and the noise appears regardless of which preset piano voice I use.

The sustain pedal produces E, the "soft" pedal produces G and the the middle pedal produces F#.

The MIDI message for the sustain pedal says PEDAL 4 - Controller 64, and when I press the sustain pedal it says "ch 1 note 64 On; velocity (whatever)". Similarly for the soft pedal, it's on Controller 67 (Pedal 1) and the sostenuto pedal is on Controller 66.

I even tried deleting these settings in the MIDI mapping panel, but it made no difference.

It's a puzzle - I'd be grateful for any thoughts.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Once you’ve selected Minimalistic for your Global MIDI Mapping and Standard MIDI for your Dialect under MIDI and under Options (as precautions against erroneous MIDI messages possibly coming to the software from the connected keyboard) you may want to do a reset on the keyboard itself; do a reset to a default or general MIDI setting that is without of course Yamaha XG.

Anytime you’ve loaded and played standard MIDI files (already heard on the keyboard or within a DAW without issues) and you discover they all play just as expected inside PIANOTEQ, you safely can assume your problem occurs outside the software  —but in hardware like computer setups, interfaces, cords, and even the keyboard itself.

I suggest if you do decide to test any standard MIDI file do it on one of the unmodified factory PIANOTEQ presets that is one without an italicized preset name showing since modified presets can always use the erroneous keyboard messages some of which might alter a piano performance entirely without your knowing.

However, when afterwards you begin a piano performance your own piano playing at the keyboard with an unmodified preset but find at the end the preset was somehow modified —by italics showing— you’ve definitely erroneous messages coming from somewhere within your signal chain.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (27-07-2020 15:19)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

smcclue wrote:

The MIDI message for the sustain pedal says PEDAL 4 - Controller 64, and when I press the sustain pedal it says "ch 1 note 64 On; velocity (whatever)".

I don't have a Yamaha N1. However, looking at the N1 User Manual and MIDI data list online, it appears that in order to connect to a computer, rather than use a USB cable from your keyboard to a computer (the N1's USB port is for only a USB memory device such as a flash drive), you must instead connect a MIDI cable to the N1's  MIDI OUT, and the other end of the cable to the MIDI IN port of an audio or MIDI interface, or to the MIDI in port of a MIDI-to-USB interface, any of which will probably have a USB port to connect the interface to your computer using a USB cable. So, how do you route MIDI from your N1 to the computer?

Evidently not all MIDI cables are equally capable, so try using a different MIDI cable in your routing.

When you play notes on the N1, are they transmitted on the same MIDI channel as the pedals (MIDI channel 1). If not (if note presses produce MIDI messages on a different channel), you can configure Pianoteq's MIDI mapping for Controllers 64, 66, 67 and 69, changing the button that indicates "Any" (MIDI channel) to "Channel 1," which is the MIDI channel you have mentioned your sustain pedal uses to send MIDI data. In addition, in the same panel (Options --> MIDI) at the bottom left, set the "Notes Channel" from "Any" to the specific MIDI channel your N1 keyboard uses to transmit its notes.

It's difficult to troubleshoot someone else's particular MIDI/audio/computer setup and devices if one does not also use those same devices and same routing of MIDI and audio data to and from a keyboard or computer.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (23-07-2020 17:52)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

smcclue wrote:

The MIDI message for the sustain pedal says PEDAL 4 - Controller 64, and when I press the sustain pedal it says "ch 1 note 64 On; velocity (whatever)".

Whenever I depress the sustain on my YAMAHA DIGITAL PIANO P-95, I’m reading something entirely different (ch 1 Controller 64), whereas you’ve shown and heard an E note: ch 1 Note 064 On (E3).

You seem to get a note 64 MIDI message, where I got a controller 64 MIDI message from my sustain.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Thanks to all for the help. I'm thinking that it's probably the CHORD USB to MIDI cable that's at fault here, since when i play I definitely get the preset changed to an italicised one, and I cannot see a way to set NOTE 64 to CONTROLLER 64 -  i can turn off the pedal, but that also turns off E3.

Anybody care to recommend a USB-to MIDI cable or some similar connect?

Anyway, the good thing about all this is that I'm going to get Pianoteq, since I'm convinced the software isn't at fault here, and I can have some fantastic voices for my Yamaha N1.

Thanks again,

Steve

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

smcclue wrote:

Anybody care to recommend a USB-to MIDI cable or some similar connect?

You might try a Tbox M3--
https://www.amazon.com/Tbox-M3-thru-MID...B0194MMVTC

Or a MIDI 4x4 USB interface--
https://www.amazon.com/MIDI-4x4-USB-int...00VHL5HOA/


Or an audio interface that includes a MIDI interface such as--

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (3rd generation) -- https://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-Scarle...07QR73T66/
Presonus AudioBox USB 96 audio/MIDI interface -- https://www.amazon.com/PreSonus-AudioBo...B071W6YVDR
MOTU M2 (or more full-featured M4) audio/MIDI interface -- https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail...-interface

--

I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, but am considering replacing this older model with a newer model Presonus or MOTU audio/MIDI interface.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (27-07-2020 18:32)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

I’ve personally experienced my own problems with the M-Audio Midisport Uno.  Mine is inoperable or totally incompatible with the keyboard I had tried also to both connect and operate PIANOTEQ via a cheap knockoff.

Presently, I use a micro lite.  Have to say it’s very solid.

Although before you move onto another MIDI interface I’d advise right-click on the software pedal, if on it you need to either assign or unassign any MIDI Event.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (27-07-2020 17:23)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

I’ve personally experienced my own problems with the M-Audio Midisport Uno.  Mine is inoperable or totally incompatible with the YAMAHA DIGITAL PIANO P-95

I've heard of other people having problems with the Midisport Uno as well, and I have never used it myself. I think I'll remove the M-Audio Midisport Uno from my list and links above.

In the past, some people who use Linux have had problems configuring the MOTU Micro Lite. I have an older MOTU Micro Express MIDI interface that works fine within Linux, however.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (27-07-2020 15:53)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

M-Audio was known as Avid and before that Midiman.  I myself have had a few Keystation keyboard controllers from the company including one that was supposed to feature eighty-eight keys.  They quickly became unusable  —and always because of the keys which were defective!

I have still though an Oxygen 8 twenty-four key controller that I seldom use, a pair of Studio Pro 4 (STUDIOPHILE DX4) speakers —through which I currently hear my copy of PIANOTEQ— and another pair which are STUDIOPHILE BX5 monitors totally useless to me.

The Studio Pro 4 speakers I had taken to a manufacturer’s office because a year after my initial purchase some repair was needed then at the California location about a couple of bus rides away from me.

Now one of the monitors of course needs some repair!

So, for goodness sakes if your looking to get a brand new MIDI interface just to fix possibly a pedal malfunction, please avoid cheap stuff as you can become blindsided by easily what seems an initial attractive low price offered by a company such as Midiman or Avid or M-Audio whatever...

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Regarding the mysterious musical tones sounding when the pedals are depressed:

You might consider "recording" a noteless piece into a sequencing program/DAW.  Upon setting up to supposedly capture a Pianoteq performance, go ahead and hit the Record button to start the collection of midi data, then depress the leftmost pedal three times, slowly, the middle pedal 4 more times at a slower tempo, and then the rightmost sustain pedal five more times.  Take note whether the piano makes any tonal sounds as you have described in your original post.

Then stop the recorder and investigate the raw midi data that the DAW picked up.  They should have a characteristic "3", then "4", then "5" bits of information.  At least in this way you can see what your keyboard is sending when you depress the pedals.  I am hoping you will see three, then four, then five streams of midi controller data (value =127) representing the three pedals normally associated with an electronic piano.  If there is something awry with your hardware, you might discover the "mystery" data that Pianoteq is translating into notes that are being sounded.

Hopefully this will give you some insight as to what is causing your Pianoteq program to fire off its notes in response to your pedals. If this mystery midi data does not apply to musical intentions, then you can tell Pianoteq to ignore either this Midi Controller data or whatever type of data that is being inadvertently sent to Pianoteq.

Hope this helps,

Joe

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

I’ve personally experienced my own problems with the M-Audio Midisport Uno.  Mine is inoperable or totally incompatible with the YAMAHA DIGITAL PIANO P-95

I've heard of other people having problems with the Midisport Uno as well, and I have never used it myself. I think I'll remove the M-Audio Midisport Uno from my list and links above.

In the past, some people who use Linux have had problems configuring the MOTU Micro Lite. I have an older MOTU Micro Express MIDI interface that works fine within Linux, however.

If my memory serves me correct, the very first interface I had ever gotten was indeed a MOTU Micro Express.  I seem to recall it looking slim: maybe only an inch high but wide enough to fit a rack.

It’s lost now!

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Sustain pedal sounds E

Thanks to all who replied. I changed the MIDI-to-USB cable, and this has solved the problem. The moral of the story is: don't buy a cheap cable!

I'm now using this one:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00...&psc=1

Many Thanks!

Steve