Topic: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Hi all - I just learned about Pianoteq and downloaded the demo - and was completely taken with it. Haven't played any piano plug-in that feels quite as live and interactive as v6, and am ready to jump in starting with Stage version and upgrading as I go.

I think in an ideal scenario I would run with the Bechstein (I really love the sound of it, the dynamics, how it cascades) and am wondering about my choice for #2. Ideally I want something that will complement the Bechstein. I'm not a pianist, I'm a composer and primarily a guitarist, and tend toward experimental and progressive music. The piano will never feature solo, and therefore something that will sit well with other instruments is essential.

As of now, based on playing with the demos, it's between the Steinway D (due to its wealth of existing presets and variations - but am not completely sold on the sound - it's big and beautiful, but I'm not sure if it's too much instrument for me), the Steinway B (for its particularly sweet sound that may prove more mix-friendly over time), or the Steingraeber (it has a certain something, big yet sweet, and a little unruly).

All these are my subjective opinions and are based on less-than-ideal listening circumstances - I'm stuck on the road and auditioning on headphones - but I'm already spoiled and can't think of wasting any more creative time on a piano soft-synth that isn't a Pianoteq! Completely spanks the Arturia PianoV for what it's worth.

What's the consensus? What should be my second choice? Please help me tip the scales. And thank you for the great level of discourse that this forum maintains; I've already learned a lot about this lovely, lovely plugin.

Last edited by artissimo (01-08-2020 06:24)

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

i think the best thing to do is to spend lots of time with the demos.  really there's no way i could say what to do because they're all so different and people have such different tastes in pianos.  i spent hours playing/recording with the demos before deciding.  and even then i couldn't settle on two!  i ended up buying two more.  since then i've bought all the acoustic and electric pianos.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

I completely agree with budo. My experience was almost exactly the same!

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

If you are simply asking for a personal opinion of the Pianoteq pianos, all of which I have bought, my personal favorites are the C. Bechstein, the Steingraeber and the Steinway D, although all of them including Pianoteq's own K2 sound great and have their own character.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (06-05-2020 20:25)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

If you are simply asking for a personal opinion of the Pianoteq pianos,

Thanks Stephen - yes, pretty much asking which 2 to start with; as I intend eventually to buy at least the 4 I mentioned, and also the K2. I understand the subjective difficulty in picking just 2, and would like to start with one that is different enough from the Bechstein to somewhat have a contrasting alt as I dip my toe into the Pianoteq realm.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Just to make your life more complicated, make sure you audition the historical instruments too!  The Kremsegg collection includes an 1899 Bechstein.  This might be a nice middle ground that sounds not too different from a modern grand, but definitely not the same either.

Also, Pianoteq allows you to "copy" presets from one instrument to another, via the "freeze parameters" feature.  I'm not sure if this is available in the demo, but it works for me on Standard.  Choose a Steinway D preset, freeze all parameters, change instrument and save as a new preset.  Now you have the new instrument with the preset microphone positions and other settings.  It may not sound quite right with a different instrumental sound, you might want to spend a bit of time tweaking things, but it's a quick way to try out a variety of sounds.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Hi artissimo,


totally agree with everyone's super advice - would def. recommend giving a little time to 'feeling' it by using the demo a while. Like so many of us you might find it important in future to add more instruments but I like your thinking..

love the C. Bechstein DG - a complimentary one which is trusted to sit well (esp. for modern music tracks) might be the Steinway B.

In the modern grands, maybe, at least to my ears, the B has the 'most' standout diffs. to the C. Bechstein DG (just how I feel it but we all might have differing sense of it).

Reasoning.. if I had decided already on the large sweeping sound of the Bechstein (it is I think the largest piano in the rack at this time and can sound genuinely awesome in that way), maybe your listeners would also like to hear a slightly smaller contrasting piano where you like to work it in. I find of course it really is great in tracks.. and the Steinway B has a king-hitting "familiarity of tones" kind of effect being so ubiquitous in existing music.. can't hurt for listeners to hear it in our contemporary music - and Pianoteq's playability makes it sound so beautiful.


A less ubiquitous sound might be your thing.. if so, maybe the still well appreciated and widely loved Ant. Petrof or Steingraeber.. both with their own ways different to the Bechstein.

The Petrof = maybe the 'cleanest' (built from scratch from an-echoic chamber sampling by Modartt entirely) current piano (very pure tones, very flexible, awesome attack and punch) - and the

Steingraeber has maybe a most eloquent tonal range with fascinating 'bell' and a kind of mysterious delight of very natural feel from attack and tails which are warm yet metallic in a really musical way.


I found Pianoteq via a search for period instruments - and fell in love with the grands too. Best music money spent in my time.

Totally talking just about inspiration though..

I'm smitten by the Broadwood (and like hanysz mentions the older Bechstein and some others in the collection). To me the Broadwood has a great tonal range for the era.. instantly it feels interesting and can be made to sound more 'modern' too with all the controls, if it's putt-off at first glance.

With modern grands, we can sometimes get lost in (or hide behind esp. in contemporary music production) dreamy chords and full sounding.. everything.. but the Broadwood keeps being one of the most satisfying things, to just improvise and work on new ideas without so much affectation from familiar contemporary rich modern tones and keeping reverb real etc. That sense of being so at home with the pure music (as compared to the modern sweetness and loudness of big grands and production).

To me all this is just unbeatable in any single piano software and if it sounds good on the Broadwood, it's in the bag.

Best of luck, artissimo! and hoping you enjoy making your choices

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Qexl wrote:

Hi artissimo,


totally agree with everyone's super advice - would def. recommend giving a little time to 'feeling' it by using the demo a while. Like so many of us you might find it important in future to add more instruments but I like your thinking..

love the C. Bechstein DG - a complimentary one which is trusted to sit well (esp. for modern music tracks) might be the Steinway B.

In the modern grands, maybe, at least to my ears, the B has the 'most' standout diffs. to the C. Bechstein DG (just how I feel it but we all might have differing sense of it).

Reasoning.. if I had decided already on the large sweeping sound of the Bechstein (it is I think the largest piano in the rack at this time and can sound genuinely awesome in that way), maybe your listeners would also like to hear a slightly smaller contrasting piano where you like to work it in. I find of course it really is great in tracks.. and the Steinway B has a king-hitting "familiarity of tones" kind of effect being so ubiquitous in existing music.. can't hurt for listeners to hear it in our contemporary music - and Pianoteq's playability makes it sound so beautiful.


A less ubiquitous sound might be your thing.. if so, maybe the still well appreciated and widely loved Ant. Petrof or Steingraeber.. both with their own ways different to the Bechstein.

The Petrof = maybe the 'cleanest' (built from scratch from an-echoic chamber sampling by Modartt entirely) current piano (very pure tones, very flexible, awesome attack and punch) - and the

Steingraeber has maybe a most eloquent tonal range with fascinating 'bell' and a kind of mysterious delight of very natural feel from attack and tails which are warm yet metallic in a really musical way.

Gladly second this.
If it were up to me, I’d start with Bechstein DG and Steingraeber, then add a Steinway or two, and the Blüthner. Don’t forget that sweet Blüthner.

Pianoteq Pro Studio with Bösendorfer, Shigeru Kawai and Organteq

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

To start, I echo the recommendation to take a good listen to the Bechstein and the Steingraeber.

But honestly, in the long run, you're going to end up collecting them all. My favorite PTQ piano changes every week.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

artissimo wrote:

I'm not a pianist, I'm a composer and primarily a guitarist, and tend toward experimental and progressive music.

I'd really recommend listening to the demos.  Hidden away inside the many classical pieces are some interesting pieces done using unexpected combinations.  For example the new Karsten pack has some demo tracks including a very different use of the Ph. Schmidt square piano (1780).  I'd suggest to start with try the Bechstein you want and the free instruments - some experimentation with them will lead to some very different thinking.  The point here is the "experimental and progressive" aspect of your needs.  Just grabbing instrument packs won't work for you - you need to try things and experiment with what they can do.  As a guitarist you might find the clavichords and pianofortes more interesting than modern grands, so think about that.

As Pianoteq comes will all the instruments (except, oddly, the free ones !) installed by default but demo limited, you can really do that without purchasing and nail down your needs when you're ready.

If you want a recommendation, I'd consider the Kremsegg 2 pack - has a beautiful Bechstein 1899 and (a personal favorite) the Frenzel and two more fine instruments.  The Karsten pack looks interesting, but isn't quite what I'm mainly interested in - your needs may be different.

I get the impression you're looking at Stage.  For someone with the technical skills (or willing to learn them) I'd suggest upgrading to Standard when you can.  There are a lot of great options for experimentally inclined musicians in there, not least of which is the advanced tuning capabilities and the ability to place microphones.  These are, IMO, indispensable for someone with your interests.  Also note that while Stage cannot properly use FXPs posted on the site, Standard can, so it's very useful from that point of view.

You can upgrade to Standard from Stage anytime and the total cost works out the same, AFAIK, so you can defer Standard until you're ready.

StephenG

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

If I had it to do over again, I would just buy the Pro Studio Bundle with every existing instrument and future ones within 1 year of purchase for free. And, of course, I would never have wasted time and money on Garritan Abbey Road CFX, Ivory II, VI Labs True Pianos, Addictive Keys, VI Labs Ravenscroft 275, Gospel Musicians Neo-Soul Keys, Spectrasonics Keyscape, etc...

All of those SAMPLED VST libraries have been dead in the water for years... except Addictive Keys. It's actually been updated once or twice. It's quite good for someone on a tight budget and it is the only one I won't bad-mouth. Ivory II seems like it's gone a full decade without an update to the samples.

Last edited by psterrett (07-05-2020 10:24)
Kawai MP11SE / Pianoteq Pro Studio Bundle v7.5.2 (includes every Pianoteq instrument - 21 currently)

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

sjgcit wrote:

If you want a recommendation, I'd consider the Kremsegg 2 pack - has a beautiful Bechstein 1899 and (a personal favorite) the Frenzel and two more fine instruments...

I just bought Kremsegg 1 & 2 yesterday. My interest was initially piqued by the C. Bechstein 1899 & J.B. Streicher 1852.

Kawai MP11SE / Pianoteq Pro Studio Bundle v7.5.2 (includes every Pianoteq instrument - 21 currently)

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Thank you all SO much for this invaluable guidance - it has lit the way forward far more effectively than I could've hoped for!! I reiterate - the quality of input and discourse on this forum is every bit as finely-tuned as the Pianoteq models themselves

Much appreciation.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

A bit late to the discussion and I agree with most everything the other posters have said. Of course it is a very personal choice, but you may notice that Steinway B and Steingraeber come out very often as favorites. After playing with every piano model for hours over months (and with my wife's input as well   these are the ones I always go to. And my third favorite is the Bechstein DG as well! And you can always take advantage of occasional rebates to add another one later!

artissimo wrote:

Thank you all SO much for this invaluable guidance - it has lit the way forward far more effectively than I could've hoped for!! I reiterate - the quality of input and discourse on this forum is every bit as finely-tuned as the Pianoteq models themselves

Much appreciation.

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

I personally like Blüthner very much.
It has that very distinct sound, which you like or not (Geschmackssache, as we say in German).
I hear the 'ü' sound in it.
Steinway D is also nice and more neutral and open than the Blüthner.
But most of the times (95%), I play Blüthner.

But in the end, you decide what you like most.

I downloaded all the samples and did blind listening, as a major step in my decision.

Good luck!

Have a nice day & happy playin'

Yamaha CP33 -- Scarlett 2i2 -- Yamaha HS7 / Sennheiser HD650 -- PTQ 8 Pro [Linux] -- Some instruments

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Viridis wrote:

I personally like Blüthner very much.
...
I hear the 'ü' sound in it.
...

THAT’s the best Blüthner description I ever read.

Pianoteq Pro Studio with Bösendorfer, Shigeru Kawai and Organteq

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Get the Studio! DO IT!

But the Bluthner is the best sounding piano IMO... but you won't be able to know without having the entire instrument pack!

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Fleer wrote:
Viridis wrote:

I personally like Blüthner very much.
...
I hear the 'ü' sound in it.
...

THAT’s the best Blüthner description I ever read.


That's perfect!


Viridis wrote:

I downloaded all the samples and did blind listening, as a major step in my decision


And also that's maybe the best advice I've seen here too.

Wonderful Viridis.


The Blüthner was the piano which sold me on the grand piano range, def. don't overlook it.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Qexl wrote:
Fleer wrote:
Viridis wrote:

I personally like Blüthner very much.
...
I hear the 'ü' sound in it.
...

THAT’s the best Blüthner description I ever read.


That's perfect!


Viridis wrote:

I downloaded all the samples and did blind listening, as a major step in my decision


And also that's maybe the best advice I've seen here too.

Wonderful Viridis.


The Blüthner was the piano which sold me on the grand piano range, def. don't overlook it.


Noted, thank you! I will spend some more time with the Blüthner and listen for the ü!

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Late reply but here it goes. I would follow the logic of Modart starter pack where you get D4+K2 and suggest a grand and a shorter grand. The reason is quite simple, you have a much more flexible palette of sound. As first choices you cannot go wrong with either the Bechstein or the Steingraeber (as much as I love the Bluthner or the Petrof, their sound is unique and perhaps not to everyone's taste). They're very flexible.
The Steinway B covers all the other situations where you don't truly need a grand (chamber music, jazz) because it offers a rich sound which shines in a context where you need a more colorful sound out of the piano.

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

I agree to an extent with Chopin87.  If you’re going to want smaller grands to play accompaniments, the Steinway B already mentioned but along with the YC5 create some of the sounds or textures familiar to most and which have mostly been used by the studio musicians.  Largely in studio recordings inside an actual room they each might furnish a backdrop to often a featured instrumentalist or vocalist who naturally would want to shine out as much as he or she could in front of either piano on his or her own record album, if honestly hoped it’s eventually picked up.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (10-05-2020 02:01)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

...If you’re going to want smaller grands to play accompaniments... a backdrop to often a featured instrumentalist or vocalist who naturally would want to shine out as much as he or she could...

Sorry, off topic, but I can't leave this alone.  To any "soloists" out there: you'll sound better if your accompaniment (piano, band, orchestra, whatever) is an equal partner in the music, not a bland backing track. You'll perform better from having something truly alive to respond to, the whole track will sound more vibrant and engaging, and that puts you in a good light.  I've met artists who understand this, and I've met artists who are too insecure to share the stage with a real musician.  The second group tend not to do as well.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

I’ve worked up to all the packs except for K2 (which I’ll be getting soon). When I started, it was the Stage version (now Pro) and the Steinway D and U4 upright as the two initial packs. I felt this was diverse enough and covered more areas than just two grands. I’d take advantage of the demo arrangements and base your choices on what you think sounds best, but I think a good place to start would be to base choices on types of piano rather than among the same class. Whatever you finally decide, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Normhart, if indeed you’ve all the packs with the exception of the K2, that included in just an upgrade to the studio bundle from MODARTT might allow access to any additional instruments and even new software version releases without your having to pay anything over the price of just the upgrade itself, or, in your case the K2 piano.  Whenever new instruments and a new version update comes within the span of one year (12 months) following a studio upgrade or purchase, the studio user gets any of those additions but without they incurring additional charges.

Before you make another purchase you may want to contact people in support, explain your situation to them and see if you can get some sort of a deal, a discounted studio.

I myself got one very recently as I received an upgrade from PIANOTEQ PRO to all the instruments of the PIANOTEQ Studio Bundle at a price reduction.  I got even the Karsten Collection as part of it!

My current signature shows just the instruments I had previously.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (02-08-2020 15:31)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Hi All,

I've made the leap, within minutes of Modartt's announcement of their most excellent Summer Sale (it was now or never )

I went with the Bechstein (LOVE that sound), the Steinway D (because it's such a reference, and of course the vast range of presets - it's a literal mini-ecosphere), and in a surprise last-minute change of heart, the Anton Petrov (something about its sound is so simple and warm and honest...).

The Steinway B and Steingraeber were close also-rans that I'll surely be supplementing my library with in due course. And perhaps the Blüthner. But these 3 should keep me occupied for the time being

And so it begins!

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

If you have to narrow things down to a few pianos, the style of music can be key.

I had been mostly ignoring the K2 piano and not even considering it as an option... until I realized that it was the PERFECT piano for a song I was working on. It hit the mark better than any of the others, so it suddenly changed from a "reject" to a "favorite" must-have.

MacPro OSX 10.12.6 (Sierra)

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Just pick up two studio packs because that's how much you'll like it.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

Please, be reasonable!

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: New to Pianoteq, requesting help picking packs - Resolved!

As always, my advice is to buy the Studio Bundle and have them all.

Kawai MP11SE / Pianoteq Pro Studio Bundle v7.5.2 (includes every Pianoteq instrument - 21 currently)