Topic by Neo

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Topic: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Hi to everyone,
at the moment I am just trying out the sounds of my licensed MK1 / MK2 and W1 sounds. Then I took also an old bookmarked video about the piano part on Michael Jacksons thriller found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPbDGhCd1Jc

This sound is sparkling and has a sound like a "bell". The actor on this video says that Greg Phillinganes has had a Rhodes with even a brighter sound.....

I compared it to Pianoteq sounds and then I ask me if it is possible to get a sound like on the video..... I have only a "Stage" license of Pianoteq and I am just starting out to test the sounds.....so a question to the experienced users: Is it possible to get such a sound with Pianoteq 6? Do you need an other type of license to enhance the sound?

Thanks a lot!

Best regards,
Neo

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

I'm very confused. When I listen to the *song* Thriller, I only really hear a Rhodes right at the beginning, and it's playing very gently. (I can easily believe it's used throughout, but if so, it's in the background - to my ears).  Can you give me a time code where you hear a bright bell-like Rhodes in the song?

A Rhodes sound I like of Jackson's that comes to mind is "Say Say Say". (actually Jackson & McCartney).

I actually don't like a bright Rhodes much, so have never tried to get that sound with Pianoteq. Might fire it up and have a play.

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Anyway, if you like the sound Dr Mix has in that video (which I don't think sounds AT ALL "sparkly"), the key thing about his sound is that he is using an effect - the "Chorus" effect.  And yes, I believe that Pianoteq can produce a sound like that, but I'm not sure whether the Stage version has the Chorus effect or not.  If not, you will need to add it separately somehow - for example - by using Pianoteq in a "VST host" application, in conjunction with a VST compatible Chorus effect - there are many free ones. The Chorus effect makes the sound thicker and warmer - like multiple instruments playing in unison, all slightly out of tune with each other.

I Googled for songs that used the Dyno My Piano Rhodes sound, and found the song "Saving All My Love For You", by Whitney Houston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewxmv2tyeRs  and that sound DOES sound "bright and sparkly" to me. (I don't hear that sound in "Thriller" yet - willing to be educated though!)

Greg

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Me again. 
I see that Stage does have effects. Dr Mix really is using heaps of Chorus - in fact it almost sounds like a Flanger. I find that if I start with MKII Spark, and then go in to the Chorus settings and crank up the Mix and Depth to max, and then go in to the EQ3 settings and reduce the bass a bit, it's pretty close.  To get closer, I'd make it less "plinky" (remove high frequency sound of the tines) here in the EQ, but you might prefer it the way it is, or even want to add more tine sound by increasing the high frequencies.  (I don't hear the plinky tine sound much in Dr Mix's sound)  In Standard, as you probably know, you have a lot more control over the sound - you can adjust the amount of tine sound separately, without having to resort to the EQ.

I didn't all the presets - there may well be other presets that are closer.

Greg

Last edited by skip (22-06-2020 03:29)

Reply by dazric

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Yes indeed, there are plenty of ways to modify the sound, even in Stage. Also, make sure you don't miss out on the free instrument pack (you have to download and install it): https://www.modartt.com/free_stuff . This amazing collection includes the Yamaha CP80. Different sort of sound, of course, but I'm pretty sure you'll love it. It seems to have been somewhat overlooked, it would be great to hear somebody do something like this with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjJu5L9N1IQ

Reply by Neo

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Hello to everybody,
thanks a lot for your replies. I made some experiments with the presets of MK1 and MK2 which have chorus activated. I think I have to play a lot more with the equalizer settings (less bass / more treble). Thank you for the hints!

Best regards,
Neo

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

With Pianoteq you can tailor a preset to your personal taste. With Pianoteq Pro's Note Edit feature, your customizations can be nicely fine-tuned.

Here's a MK I (modeled Fender Rhodes) preset I've been working on for a couple weeks, which can be dragged if one wishes to the Pianoteq app to save it in the default location for presets/addons. The note-on velocity curve might need to be changed or adjusted for one's own MIDI keyboard.

--

FXP file (MK I SD1 preset): https://forum.modartt.com/file/aljb6a41

Sample audio: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?file=MK-I_SD1.mp3

--

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (24-06-2020 17:05)
--
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Reply by Qexl

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Really like that preset Stephen! Thanks.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Wow - this appears to be JUST the Rhodes and guitar parts from the song - I love the internet!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Bge3LpiiI

And yes - I agree that this IS a bright and sparkly Rhodes sound, however it is also very "strident", with a lot of emphasis on the mid tones.
So yes - cut the bass a LOT. (and it does use a lot of chorus, just like Dr Mix does)

Greg

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

I've actually switched to the Flanger instead of the Chorus. I can't quite get a "visceral" enough Chorus with Pianoteq's inbuilt Chorus - the Flanger gets me closer. (I don't actually own Pianoteq 6, so I can't actually save any presets with the trial versions of Pianoteq 6 - sorry!)
I'm pretty sure Stage owners can LOAD and play Standard and Pro presets, using all the features, so maybe someone can do a very carefully designed "Thriller" preset......
FWIW, here's a screen grab of my Effects page at the moment, in Stage:
https://i.ibb.co/2NgRrPR/thriller-stage.png

Something else that I think will help is to make a steep velocity curve, so you are playing more in the forte timbres.

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Hey Skip (peels a gum leaf and blows the famous whistle! Pulls out the banjo)

skip wrote:

maybe someone can do a very carefully designed "Thriller" preset


ThrillR MK II Pianoteq preset FXP


Audio demo of ThrillR MK II Pianoteq preset


Thanks for your settings in the screenshot.

My conclusion is, those settings are close to really usable in tracks. I didn't go too far into careful design here - but it sounded a great start to me, as you had it.

I've made a version 6 compatible FXP preset with just a few tweaks to the EQ (touch more bass, touch less treble, let Q factors back to defaults) - added a chorus (it's OK to run both this and flanger - just adjusting rates/depths to get something which doesn't flop).

Hope it's enjoyed by anyone looking for such a preset - along with others. The MK II is pretty pliable and lovable. Edit it any way you want and share it back

Cheers.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Qexl: thanks. Perhaps yours sounds more like Dr Mix's sound than mine, but could mine be more like the sound on the actual track? Btw, I note that Dr Mix did in fact use that guitar & Rhodes video that I mentioned as his reference - I didn't realise that until now.

If Dr Mix figured out that complex voicing just from that recording, I take my hat off!  Very impressive.  I love how he presents it, singing quietly as well, putting his playing in context. 

I was wrong about Stage being able to play Standard & Pro presets - it only loads the parameters that are actually available in Stage, so that wouldn't cut it for me. https://www.modartt.com/faq

Looking at the comments under Dr Mix's video, I am not alone in being surprised that there is a Rhodes in Thriller.

Greg

Last edited by skip (26-06-2020 01:31)

Reply by Neo

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

With Pianoteq you can tailor a preset to your personal taste. With Pianoteq Pro's Note Edit feature, your customizations can be nicely fine-tuned.

Here's a MK I (modeled Fender Rhodes) preset I've been working on for a couple weeks, which can be dragged if one wishes to the Pianoteq app to save it in the default location for presets/addons. The note-on velocity curve might need to be changed or adjusted for one's own MIDI keyboard.

--

FXP file (MK I SD1 preset): https://forum.modartt.com/file/aljb6a41

Sample audio: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?file=MK-I_SD1.mp3

--

Yeah - Stephen, I like it also! Wonderful sound - thank you very much!
Regards,
Neo

Reply by Neo

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Qexl wrote:

Hey Skip (peels a gum leaf and blows the famous whistle! Pulls out the banjo)

skip wrote:

maybe someone can do a very carefully designed "Thriller" preset


ThrillR MK II Pianoteq preset FXP


Audio demo of ThrillR MK II Pianoteq preset


Thanks for your settings in the screenshot.

My conclusion is, those settings are close to really usable in tracks. I didn't go too far into careful design here - but it sounded a great start to me, as you had it.

I've made a version 6 compatible FXP preset with just a few tweaks to the EQ (touch more bass, touch less treble, let Q factors back to defaults) - added a chorus (it's OK to run both this and flanger - just adjusting rates/depths to get something which doesn't flop).

Hope it's enjoyed by anyone looking for such a preset - along with others. The MK II is pretty pliable and lovable. Edit it any way you want and share it back

Cheers.

Also great - very nice sound! I love Pianoteq more and more!
Regards,
Neo

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Cheers to you Neo - To me Pianoteq is as good as any software I've experienced in my time.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

Neo: I hope you let us hear your playing of "Thriller", if you do intend on mastering it. (or do you just want the Rhodes sound?)

Greg

Last edited by skip (26-06-2020 13:50)

Reply by Neo

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

skip wrote:

Neo: I hope you let us hear your playing of "Thriller", if you do intend on mastering it. (or do you just want the Rhodes sound?)

Greg

Hello Greg,
I think you won't have the luck to hear me playing the Rhodes part of "Thriller" ;-)
I am not a pianist - I am playing mainly electric-bass and electric-guitar, but I want to start doing some compositions and recordings by my own.
For composing things I was searching for a Piano which sounds really realistic and a colleage from me recommended Pianoteq (for acoustic piano sounds).
I had an old masterkeyboard and my goal was to create a standalone solution together with Pianoteq 6 stage. So I started a little "hardware project" before composing.....you can take a look to it here:
http://www.belleart.org/bluespice/index..._Odroid-N2
....and this is now nearly finished.

Beside to that I am also a fan of the sounds of Rhodes and Wurlitzer pianos. And when I heard that youtube video from "Dr. Mix" I had ghost bumps on my arms because of that great chords and that sound......so I wanted just to know if I could reach a similar sound result also with Pianoteq 6.....I am new to Pianoteq and my first trials with just the presets where not satisfying .....yesterday I played the whole day ....and now - I am really astonished.   
Regards,
Neo

Reply by skip

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Re: Rhodes piano sparkling sound like used on Michael Jacksons "Thriller"

That setup looks very cool.

I'm with you on the goosebumps. I'm much older than you, and you have it MUCH easier than I did at your age. No internet to help me figure out that it was the Wurlitzer that I heard in Supertramp's "Dreamer", back in the 70s.  I was totally floored - what a sound, and what magnificent playing too. I have yet to hear a single song that uses the Wurlitzer that I do not like. Put that sound in, and I like the song.

Best of luck!

Greg.