High pitch ringing: how to track and neutralize?

Heya Viridis,

can you copy and paste here your EQ's from Pianoteq? 

For anyone not sure how..

In the main EQ found by pressing the button "Equalizer", right click in Pianoteq's EQ and choose copy - then right-click when typing your post and choose paste). It might look like this:

Equalizer = [60, 250, 560, 2000, 3500, 14000; -4.0, -3.0, -1.0, 0, +2.5, 0]

And..

Also inside the "Effects" section there's also the parametric type EQ3 EQs - you can right-click each of the 3 dots in there to see the numbers and type or copy/paste those like so for example..

Freq: 40
Gain: 1.5
Q   : 1.00

Freq: 400
Gain: 3.0
Q   : 0.22

Freq: 4000
Gain: 0.0
Q   : 1.00

From those, I can try to see if I'd be able to understand what you're trying for - hoping I can give you an alteration to paste back in to test.

If you're mainly annoyed by one freak frequency, it might just be your room acoustics.

Or - your audio kit might have this issue (speakers themselves, or audio unit).

It would be interesting to record the room with a Zoom like yours (to high-quality files rather than to MP3, with no compression/FX - trying standard, surround vs. other configs like Mid/Side - hearing how they differ might give a clue to exact freq but if you use this unit for your external audio device.. it may be the problem and not the solution - can't remember if it's possible to run this Zoom as an external audio device with Pianoteq.. assuming this is possible).

I've loved some old Zoom FX boxes since the 90s - but they always had their own specific sound - so might not be the best tool to measure with - esp. if a low frequency (no matter what's generating it, speakers or other audio unit) is what's making a higher one 'ring' in your room - maybe the Zoom won't capture that below 85Hz, not too sure).

Some processing (DAC or audio boxes, clever speakers or plugins) can enhance overtones to push higher overtones to make non-existant deeper "seem" more present - and this can cause some issues above even mids - so your range of around 432 seems to fit as a possible symptom of this kind of thing to me - so worth considering the audio unit.

To test, try just regular PC audio - see if the same extreme frequency bump occurs.

There's a lot of info around on room and other fixes - but often it's something we look back at and think "Oh, it's obvious now" but at the time, we might not have thought of the right fix. Since every room and audio problem has different beginnings - and if some of the above still doesn't help.. here's just an outline of some things anyone can do to make their speakers sound a little or hopefully a lot better.

Pianoteq and pianos contain more or less of every frequency between around 60Hz to 20kHz - with all the inherent piano overtones singing away rising and falling like reality, which is why so many people with room/acoustic space issues have some troubles getting a piano to sound its best. What technically should sound lovely across a wide spectrum of frequencies in most settings will always sound the most wrong in a room with a noticeable hole or mountain somewhere within the physical acoustics.

Pianoteq being so real and full of frequency forces in many presets can reveal a problem in a room, much more likely than a problem room can show off a good piano. That's why, to me, when someone has in issue with Pianoteq's audio, it's 99.999% going to come down to a room issue (Pianoteq defaults are excellent in a studio, great to record with and push and pull in all kinds of ways, so if someone has a definite issue, it's inevitably going to be more about acoustics in our space than the software. EQ can help but fixing the room might be the single best thing to do).

An electric guitar amp might only be capable of 90hz to a tiny 6kHz - yet people will say "Great guitar sound!".

Just saying that as an obvious example showing that - you can still make great recordings (even with piano) without including all the frequencies. Mostly in relation to contemporary productions esp. in a mix rather than solo, it's often very strange EQs which bring out or limit things - but listeners hear "Great piano sound".. but if there was a Pianoteq preset exactly like it.. "Ergh.. that sounds so tinny" - but if something generally clearly sounds wrong with a supposedly normal piano default - it's more often going to be the room or audio kit with a hole or bump in some frequency range.

So - most people will either hear a full piano range as what they expect but a bad room will have a different monster frequency here or there which really shows up mostly on a piano, esp. if you play all octaves.. unless your room is perfect (like a major studio) every one of us will find small bumps and deficits - but mostly they're tiny and we get used to our rooms over time (this is a 'main reason' for near-field studio type monitors.. when we get fussy, we know we're making audio which should work for many other systems without anybody hearing our patchwork EQ fixes all over it).

The forum has some discussions on this kind of thing but there's never an exact pre-fab and repeatable perfect fix for any given space - you may have tiles on floor, wood walls, old ornate painted cast metal decorative ceilings - or plaster everything with carpet floors but big glass sliding doors on the left only.. limitless variants.. not only materials or dimensions but positions and angles of everything comes into play.

Some extremely strange rooms might be fantastic to record an instrument in - BUT will be the worst place to monitor and/or mix in. A lot of people think, they can monitor/mix in a space that sounds great to record in - but often, you want a very different acoustic set up for both tasks - another area very much overlooked in all these discussions about how to make a good piano sound or recording.. just mentioning this in case it gives an "Aha moment" for someone reading.

You know your room best - so it's probably going to be a process of finding a number of pretty obvious things which work in concert with each other.

I'd try a number of things right up first..

Luckily, you can be rid of it (often!) by just adjusting a few of these things around in the room with little or no cost.

A little laundry list of low cost, broad effect items..

a
Hang a wall-hanging/wall rug behind the line of the speakers - if you can make it 'off the wall' so there's an air gap. Every space is different (wall materials reflectivity and so on) and you might get better results if the hanging is flush against the wall instead, or placing shaped foam in that air gap (even cardboard egg cartons).

b
Move further away from the wall (a meter or 2 even - esp. if your speakers have a "bass port" facing forward. I prefer a rear bass port for that reason alone).

Unless you're zooming into your near-field monitors for critical listening, you're likely to enjoy the listening experience further back than a few arm lengths maybe.

c
Angle the speakers..

try aiming them so they're not directly pointing in your ears. I find it more enjoyable that way, the sweet spot is going to be probably wider than many of us think - and if we get used to a narrow spectrum, we're getting used to maybe the 'wrong deal' when it comes to enjoying stereo - wider is OK - except for some particular critical analysis, we don't need to think of the speakers as big head-phones and stick our faces right in close and 100% in the center

(that's esp. good for avoiding ear fatigue too).

If you find re-arranging the space doesn't completely solve that frequency spike, and your Pianoteq EQ's are not solving..

maybe consider it a job for your DAW of choice and a good quality EQ unit/plugin.

There are many ways some nice plugins can surgically attenuate a frequency, depending on which ones you use. (their manuals should describe those well). Try parametric and types with threshold cut/boost like F6 by Waves.com (rather than static multi-band slider types unless you want what they do, which might not be best for this job though).

Even if we can likely surgically remove something tiny or extreme with EQ or other tools, it's mostly a great idea to try solving any fundamental problems in your room/space first.