Topic: pianoteq on portable device

hello

i m insterested to buy a pianoteq licence since my test of the trial version: the sound is very good and realistic regarding the one of the electronic module of my acoustic upright piano (GENIO PREMIUM with midi usb front plug).

Nevertheless run it on a PC has drawbacks: a laptop is not so large but take a significative place of an upright piano, it takes time to launch it (10 s approx is a mini), and run the software, it needs to be powered if it stay on the piano. If dedicated only to pianoteq it is a costly solution (in particular if you want a SSDD hard drive in order the PC open clikly).
So for me the ideal would be that pianoteq is available on small platform typically smartphone (tablet in fact because no need of 3G) with feature: relatively cheap, maybe enough powerfull CPU, no need to switch off, always on with the sotware always running, small device, limited power recharge device,...

As pianoteq does not exist on Android (or Iphone) what is the closer alternative for a device that support pianoteq with a maximum of the advantage of a tablet?

An important requirement as well  is that there no loss of sound quality from the reference platform (PC?) : so the idea is to know the minimum of CPU and RAM necessary for such a device. I suppose it should be ARM architecture based (pianoteq seems compatble) and runs very probably linux solution: so maybe PinePhone or PineTab  is my solution? If yes i m interested to know if someone runs pianoteq on it.

By. Enjoy (good) piano !

Re: pianoteq on portable device

mgla wrote:

hello

i m insterested to buy a pianoteq licence since my test of the trial version: the sound is very good and realistic regarding the one of the electronic module of my acoustic upright piano (GENIO PREMIUM with midi usb front plug).

Nevertheless run it on a PC has drawbacks: a laptop is not so large but take a significative place of an upright piano, it takes time to launch it (10 s approx is a mini), and run the software, it needs to be powered if it stay on the piano. If dedicated only to pianoteq it is a costly solution (in particular if you want a SSDD hard drive in order the PC open clikly).
So for me the ideal would be that pianoteq is available on small platform typically smartphone (tablet in fact because no need of 3G) with feature: relatively cheap, maybe enough powerfull CPU, no need to switch off, always on with the sotware always running, small device, limited power recharge device,...

As pianoteq does not exist on Android (or Iphone) what is the closer alternative for a device that support pianoteq with a maximum of the advantage of a tablet?

An important requirement as well  is that there no loss of sound quality from the reference platform (PC?) : so the idea is to know the minimum of CPU and RAM necessary for such a device. I suppose it should be ARM architecture based (pianoteq seems compatble) and runs very probably linux solution: so maybe PinePhone or PineTab  is my solution? If yes i m interested to know if someone runs pianoteq on it.

By. Enjoy (good) piano !

Launching an app on Android or iOS devices also takes a few seconds. So forgive me if I am confused as to why 10 seconds are a "problem". It takes longer than that just to open and prepare my acoustic piano. Boot times of several minutes would be a different matter, but those are a thing of the past. In fact a Windows 10 device wakes from power saving mode very quickly, almost as quickly as Android or iOS; also Windows tablets do exist. PTQ does run on Arm Linux, but personally my Linux days are over, especially when it comes to audio software. Drivers continue to be a mess, and while getting a low-latency, stable setup ist very much possible, you should be prepared for having to tweak it for some time, which is more or less due to a problem Android also has: very high variation in device configurations.

As to the last point, there's good reason at least to not support Andoid, and its high device variance is a big part of it. For the most part I still like the platform better than iOS, although Google as a company is a lot shadier than Apple when it comes to data protection. But there's hardly any pro music stuff available, and that's because sound drivers continue to be a hot mess. There are options for low-latency audio nowadays, but whether they work depends on your device, and you never know that before trying. So some developers have opted to offer demo or test versions of their products just so consumers can check before buying. Essentially the developer has to put in additional work to enable buyers to not-buy their product. Also Android customers are not used to things costing 100 bucks or more, and Pianoteq is competing with professional sample libraries that also cost 100s of dollars/euros, not with toy romplers on Android for 2 bucks. Maybe there would be a better market on iOS, it certainly has better driver support, but overall it's about a quarter of the mobile market (and market share at least not growing I think).

Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: pianoteq on portable device

+1. Nobody tells you to switch your laptop off, just let it in sleep mode it will probably wake up in less than 10 seconds.
Microsoft "Surface" models for example - or other cheaper models, surely can run PTQ flawlessly.

Re: pianoteq on portable device

Hi mgla,

This forum discussion with recent posts about using Pianoteq on "raspberry pi" might be interesting for you. Some people are getting good results recently.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: pianoteq on portable device

Hello qex.
Thks for your answer.
Pi4 is cheap small but without integrated screen keyboard and mouse. So it fits all my requirements. more other perfo seems not so clearly achieved
Bye.


Qexl wrote:

Hi mgla,

This forum discussion with recent posts about using Pianoteq on "raspberry pi" might be interesting for you. Some people are getting good results recently.

Re: pianoteq on portable device

Do you need a screen in front of you while you're playing?  Another option is to buy a small MIDI controller such as the Korg nanoKontrol or the iCon iControls.  Then you can run a USB cable from your controller to your laptop or desktop computer, and have some faders and dials in front of you for changing Pianoteq settings without taking up too much space.

Re: pianoteq on portable device

Ok. Surface sems a  solution. Only issue to know the minimal conf to launch ptq correctly  Some user says it is ok with I7. Atoms version could cheaper. To check.

Something I wonder: does the performance ptq constantly evolves wit laptop performances or after a level there is maximum of ptq that is reached?

Thanks

Luc Henrion wrote:

+1. Nobody tells you to switch your laptop off, just let it in sleep mode it will probably wake up in less than 10 seconds.
Microsoft "Surface" models for example - or other cheaper models, surely can run PTQ flawlessly.

Re: pianoteq on portable device

mgla wrote:

Ok. Surface sems a  solution. Only issue to know the minimal conf to launch ptq correctly  Some user says it is ok with I7. Atoms version could cheaper. To check.

Something I wonder: does the performance ptq constantly evolves wit laptop performances or after a level there is maximum of ptq that is reached?

Apart from the rendering frequency there is not much you can configure, and due to the way Pianoteq works pretty much the only parameter that matters is polyphony. Newer versions tend to improve the modelling detail while being able to render fewer concurrent notes; i.e. as quality goes up, polyphony (slowly) goes down. On my laptop (a lower-middle tier i5) I currently get to a real-time polyphony of about 60 for most instruments with multi-mic soundstage recording and reverb effect active, which is okay for most stuff. YMMV though. A thing I have learned is especially on mobile hardware there are power saving features that don't play well with real-time applications, so the advanced performance settings will probably be your friend until you get to the point low-latency, stable and crackle-free ASIO works. (That's not really a Pianoteq problem though.)

[Addendum: said laptop is actually just an i3-6006U, which is really not very powerful at all by today's standards.]

Last edited by kalessin (23-05-2020 17:38)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: pianoteq on portable device

For the most portable - look at the previously mentioned Raspberry Pi 4 and also the Odroid N2 (both are ARM). The Raspberry and Odroid class of computers have been good for proof of concept, but the performance has been disappointing. I’m hoping the Odroid N2 will turn the tide on that. One nice thing on the Odroid is the massive heat sink, which means you can run it full speed and maybe even over clock it.

Generally if the CPU can get the PTQ Performance Index around 30-40 you can turn on the basic defaults with limited polyphony. Unfortunately, previous Raspberry Pi and Odroid PTQ Index were below 30 and many settings had to be set to their lowest values.

The next step up are the higher end Intel Celerons and mobile CPUs. Any of the recent 7th, 8th or 9th generation will give decent performance (90 and above). Even the older CPUs from the 3rd-6th generation Intel CPUs will perform above 50. I run Pianoteq on a couple of MacBook Airs with a 4th (2011) and 5th generation (2013) mobile i5s and can basically turn all the settings, with a PTQ Index between 50-112.

If you take the next step to a desktop CPU, you will easily get all the performance need.

Some things to keep in mind:
- the best performance occurs with the first 2-cores. After that you hit the point of diminishing returns and get very marginal improvements from extra cores.
- a higher clock speed is important for performance if you go with an older CPU. But the newer 7th, 8th and 9th generation Intel CPUs might actually be faster than older CPUs, even if they are running at much slower clock speeds. For example a 9th generation i3 at 1.8Ghz might out-perform a 3rd generation i7 running at 4.0Ghz.

Last edited by Groove On (23-05-2020 18:14)

Re: pianoteq on portable device

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Re: pianoteq on portable device

I too use on old Macbook Air (2013) with an i5 Intel chip (i5-4250U) as my fixed setup for Pianoteq, and it runs perfectly on it, with a PT index up to 120 and above, and without any hassle with drivers and such.
Wake up time on the Macbook is almost none. So if you don't quit PT before sleeping the computer, it will be right there when you open the Macbook. I use the internal Macbook sound card without anything else, because it's pretty good (certainly for use with headphones).

You can get a second hand Macbook of that generation (or even a bit more recent) for € 200-300 (in the Netherlands). That's not much different then the cost of the combination of Raspberry, soundcard, screen and peripherals (again, in the Netherlands). If you like building stuff, then the latter is more fun of course.