Topic: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Hi,

I am looking for recommendations for powered near-field monitors for Pianoteq. Would love to hear if you use them and what you think of them!

Thanks,
Osho

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Small problem here: there must be a thousand available models !
My only personal advice: think large and powerful !
I ended up with almost "midfield" ones - tri-amped 8" from Fostex (discontinued) + a 10" sub !
Just because they had to "survive" against my real grand...

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

I have experimented with many amps, speaker configurations over the years and the issue of PRESENSE is the main quest.  Headphones seem to always work best for me whatever I try with my speaker systems.  Of course, when one plays out somewhere - speakers are going to be the game. 

Kudos,

Lanny

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

I had some ESI 05 monitors which were ok, I preferred them to the more expensive Yamaha HS7. One problem with active monitors is because they are mains powered, they are difficult to place or experiment with different placements. Longer mains leads could be bought but safety wise I didn't bother. I would definitely consider a subwoofer whatever size the main monitors are. One thing to note is the term STUDIO, this for me meant I was entering a world better than HI FI, more exclusive. Some studios use hi fi speakers, Mission and Yamaha passives for example with a separate amp, I prefer this older method.

Last edited by MeDorian (14-03-2020 17:53)

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Amped speakers means, normally, a better match between the amp(s) and the speaker(s) - it's usually a bi-amped system, with an electronic crossover, more accurate (with less phase problems) than a passive one.
Hifi speakers tend to have less sensitivity: if you choose this way, youd' better look for a more powerful system than comparable active speakers.
The problem is that a (real) piano has really a lot of power !

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

I can recommend these
Just bought them and is really pleased with the sound
https://www.thomann.de/dk/tannoy_gold_7.htm

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Still recommend these ART RM5:
https://artproaudio.com/product/rm5-monitors/

Quite small, wall mountable, full frequency range down to 45 Hz (-3dB) made possible by side mounted passive radiators. Great imaging. Even at close range, the sound does not appear to come from the boxes themselves, but surrounds the player!
These have greatly improved my pianoteq experience. I have tried bigger, more expensive speakers, but i am now convinced that proximity and placement are paramount, and this cannot be achieved with typical big hifi enclosures.

Last edited by aWc (16-03-2020 18:21)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Thanks all for the responses.

Many good suggestions.

Tannoy Gold 7 looks interesting (or Gold 8 ones)...

ART RM5 - how do they do with the lowest octave? They look intriguing but are very different than most powere dmonitors? Is there a place I can buy these with decent return policy?

Osho

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

The lowest octave is impressively deep and tight on the ART RM5.  Maybe not as much as big towers, but certainly enough to make the pianoteq models sound big. There are not many reviews online, but they are all very positive. There are a few more recent ones on gearslutz.com if you search.

Where are you located?
PS Its a canadian made product, but I think it is distributed in the USA, England and Europe.

oshogg wrote:

Thanks all for the responses.

Many good suggestions.

Tannoy Gold 7 looks interesting (or Gold 8 ones)...

ART RM5 - how do they do with the lowest octave? They look intriguing but are very different than most powere dmonitors? Is there a place I can buy these with decent return policy?

Osho

Last edited by aWc (17-03-2020 17:57)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

aWc wrote:

The lowest octave is impressively deep and tight on the ART RM5.  Maybe not as much as big towers, but certainly enough to make the pianoteq models sound big. There are not many reviews online, but they are all very positive. There are a few more recent ones on gearslutz.com if you search.

Where are you located?

I am in USA - west coast. I saw the thread on gearslutz. There were some mentions of production quality issues - but good comments otherwise. Hence, it may be important to try to find a local dealer to where I can return these if I run into any issues.

I really like ART RM5 look and its feature set. Very interesting mix of features..

Osho

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

the quality control issues were on early  models  showed at NAMM many years ago. There was a problem with the adhesive used for the passive radiator suspensions. The adhesive was replaced for all production models and the issue thus resolved.

I bought from Long and McQuade. They have a 30-day money back guarantee. Dont know if this also applies to international sales. Check their website. If you can go to a dealer to hear them before buying, it's even better. I was able to listen to all my favorite piano CDs in a private room before buying.


oshogg wrote:
aWc wrote:

The lowest octave is impressively deep and tight on the ART RM5.  Maybe not as much as big towers, but certainly enough to make the pianoteq models sound big. There are not many reviews online, but they are all very positive. There are a few more recent ones on gearslutz.com if you search.

Where are you located?

I am in USA - west coast. I saw the thread on gearslutz. There were some mentions of production quality issues - but good comments otherwise. Hence, it may be important to try to find a local dealer to where I can return these if I run into any issues.

I really like ART RM5 look and its feature set. Very interesting mix of features..

Osho

Last edited by aWc (17-03-2020 21:17)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

I play pianoteq mostly with headphones, but I'm interested also in trying some near field monitor.
Looking at Korg website I've noticed the sequenz sonicbar (https://sequenzmusicgear.com/en/product.../#sonicbar)  that seems interesting for the form factor, price and placement possibilites.
Anyway there are not so many reviews, so I'm wondering if someone has some experience with this speakers.

Pianoteq Standard@Studiologic SL88 Grand
Steinway Model D | K2 grand piano | Ant. Petrof 275 | Steingraeber E-272 | Hohner Collection | Electric pianos | C. Bechstein DG | U4 upright piano | YC5 rock

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

I have a pair of KEF LS50 powered by an Arcam A19 Amplifier. They work a treat for me!

Hope this helps

Warmest regards

Chris

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

You'll have presence in the room with this and 2 B1s with the ToneMatch. BUY BUY BUY!

https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/spe..._pkg_black

Audio Sample.
https://youtu.be/lxlJjcKJO9c

Last edited by Mk4UmHa (30-04-2020 19:04)

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

aWc wrote:

Still recommend these ART RM5:
https://artproaudio.com/product/rm5-monitors/

Quite small, wall mountable, full frequency range down to 45 Hz (-3dB) made possible by side mounted passive radiators. Great imaging. Even at close range, the sound does not appear to come from the boxes themselves, but surrounds the player!
These have greatly improved my pianoteq experience. I have tried bigger, more expensive speakers, but i am now convinced that proximity and placement are paramount, and this cannot be achieved with typical big hifi enclosures.

Is there any way you could record a video of Pianoteq playing through your RM5 speakers? I can't find ANY audio clips of these! I know a cell phone or DSLR video is no way to judge the quality of a speaker, but you can get a sense of the quality with it knowing how a real piano should fill a room. I'd love to hear it, if you have the means to record a little video.

Mk4UmHa wrote:

You'll have presence in the room with this and 2 B1s with the ToneMatch. BUY BUY BUY!

https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/spe..._pkg_black

Audio Sample.
https://youtu.be/lxlJjcKJO9c

Wow! That's a nice setup!

Last edited by PaptainClanet (30-04-2020 19:52)

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Mk4UmHa wrote:

You'll have presence in the room with this and 2 B1s with the ToneMatch. BUY BUY BUY!

https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/spe..._pkg_black

Audio Sample.
https://youtu.be/lxlJjcKJO9c

And, people allege you can’t really get realistic piano sounds out of Pianoteq and a pair of loudspeakers, incredible!

People, near-field monitors —as the name implies— have been primarily intended as a means anybody, but, especially, a mix engineer uses to closely monitor a stereo or occasional mono mix.

Believable grand piano tones simulation and consequently reproduction lately from software is an afterthought at best!

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Interesting suggestion. I might give it a shot. However, anybody invested in buying those speakers should try them for themselves in a suitable environment.

aWc wrote:

Quite small, wall mountable, full frequency range down to 45 Hz (-3dB) made possible by side mounted passive radiators. Great imaging. Even at close range, the sound does not appear to come from the boxes themselves, but surrounds the player!
These have greatly improved my pianoteq experience. I have tried bigger, more expensive speakers, but i am now convinced that proximity and placement are paramount, and this cannot be achieved with typical big hifi enclosures.

PaptainClanet wrote:

Is there any way you could record a video of Pianoteq playing through your RM5 speakers? I can't find ANY audio clips of these! I know a cell phone or DSLR video is no way to judge the quality of a speaker, but you can get a sense of the quality with it knowing how a real piano should fill a room. I'd love to hear it, if you have the means to record a little video.

Last edited by aWc (30-04-2020 20:42)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

aWc wrote:

Interesting suggestion. I might give it a shot. However, anybody invested in buying those speakers should try them for themselves in a suitable environment.

Any update? Would love to hear a sample.

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

I did a test using my Panasonic camcorder and its built-in microphones. It sounds pretty decent...I wish I had high quality mics, I think it would sound amazing. I'll try and post the example in the next few days.

PaptainClanet wrote:
aWc wrote:

Interesting suggestion. I might give it a shot. However, anybody invested in buying those speakers should try them for themselves in a suitable environment.

Any update? Would love to hear a sample.

Last edited by aWc (04-05-2020 17:53)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Here it is. I picked a Ravel midi file that I liked, but somehow the controller used or the pianist's dynamics didn't work for the velocity curves I use, so I had to come up with a rather strange curve. Don't expect audiophile quality as the sound was recorded with the built-in microphones from the camcorder.There is a certain ringing in high frequencies (particularly evident in the slow part) that is not coming from the speakers in live listening. I would love to get my hands on good microphones and get a more faithful recording. Still, I think that the extended frequency range and solid transients are plain to hear.
https://youtu.be/E2q-5POrTk4

aWc wrote:

I did a test using my Panasonic camcorder and its built-in microphones. It sounds pretty decent...I wish I had high quality mics, I think it would sound amazing. I'll try and post the example in the next few days.

PaptainClanet wrote:
aWc wrote:

Interesting suggestion. I might give it a shot. However, anybody invested in buying those speakers should try them for themselves in a suitable environment.

Any update? Would love to hear a sample.

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

aWc wrote:

Here it is

Thanks! But it says the video is private? Can you change it to unlisted, perhaps?

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

you could still click on the link and play. I made it public anyway...

PaptainClanet wrote:
aWc wrote:

Here it is

Thanks! But it says the video is private? Can you change it to unlisted, perhaps?

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

aWc wrote:

you could still click on the link and play. I made it public anyway...

PaptainClanet wrote:
aWc wrote:

Here it is

Thanks! But it says the video is private? Can you change it to unlisted, perhaps?

I did click the link, but it didnt work. Thank you for putting this together, the text info is appreciated. They do sound nice, but as expected, it is a bit hard to really get a sense of the sound through the camcorder, particularly with that song. Its a shame they are not more popular, there are no comparison videos online against any other monitors!

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Ummm, you may not like Ravel, but the piece is a hell of a showcase for a piano, imho. Maybe you mean it doesn't sollicitate the bass register enough?
Which piece would you pick?

PaptainClanet wrote:
aWc wrote:

you could still click on the link and play. I made it public anyway...

PaptainClanet wrote:

Thanks! But it says the video is private? Can you change it to unlisted, perhaps?

I did click the link, but it didnt work. Thank you for putting this together, the text info is appreciated. They do sound nice, but as expected, it is a bit hard to really get a sense of the sound through the camcorder, particularly with that song. Its a shame they are not more popular, there are no comparison videos online against any other monitors!

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

aWc wrote:

Ummm, you may not like Ravel, but the piece is a hell of a showcase for a piano, imho. Maybe you mean it doesn't sollicitate the bass register enough?
Which piece would you pick?

PaptainClanet wrote:
aWc wrote:

you could still click on the link and play. I made it public anyway...

I did click the link, but it didnt work. Thank you for putting this together, the text info is appreciated. They do sound nice, but as expected, it is a bit hard to really get a sense of the sound through the camcorder, particularly with that song. Its a shame they are not more popular, there are no comparison videos online against any other monitors!

Nothing against Ravel, for sure. Its just a very high end (meaning notes) oriented, and busy, piece. That's all! It must be your preset, but the sound feels very far away with not much oomph or attack. Are you using far mics?

Last edited by PaptainClanet (05-05-2020 22:30)

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

YEA! I was never Bose fan until I heard this speaker at a wedding. I picked these up back in 2010 or so and it's been in the house since.

I accidentally discovered Pianoteq and when I hit the C note on my keyboard and heard it come out of that speaker! I laughed so hard and had the biggest grin. It was amazing....

I was telling my wife that I'm actually using the speaker the way it was meant to be used to amplify real instruments, I just happen to have a virtual modeled one in my notebook.

I emailed Moddart about a month later telling them I wanted the Studio Upgrade!

I would not be back playing piano at all if I didn't have this setup. I brought my Kurzweil out which had been sitting under my bed since 1997. I started getting back into piano around September 2018, PianoTeq is just that good.

A virtual anechoic chamber with full compliment of modeled microphones, complete mixer/EQ. Complete Piano setup to individual tuning on a notes, then ability to place the entire setup in a virtual room.

It's amazing paired to the Bose L1 which was designed to amplify real instruments without distortions filters (unless you want it to)

Bose has a cheaper one for the house the S1 or compact? I think it will suffice for the home which you could try out!

I can play on the real pianos the Steinway D, B, CFX, the Bluthner, the Petrof and come home and my ear's can't tell the difference anymore. Especially when they released 6.5.0, that attack change made the piano have more room presence,


Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

And, people allege you can’t really get realistic piano sounds out of Pianoteq and a pair of loudspeakers, incredible!

People, near-field monitors —as the name implies— have been primarily intended as a means anybody, but, especially, a mix engineer uses to closely monitor a stereo or occasional mono mix.

Believable grand piano tones simulation and consequently reproduction lately from software is an afterthought at best!

Last edited by Mk4UmHa (08-05-2020 03:17)

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Thanks! You really should get that Bose Speaker, you only need one of them. I bet you could find a dealer and take your notebook there and hook it into the speaker and try out, Guitar Center has them... I'm not sure Bose still have their own stores.

You won't look back and what's nice is playing music on that speaker, any genre, especially classical/opera.

PaptainClanet wrote:

Wow! That's a nice setup!

Last edited by Mk4UmHa (08-05-2020 03:20)

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

After doing much research an experimenting I have found the most perfect (if that is even possible) setup for Pianoteq (and indeed other sample based piano libraries).

As written in my first post on another thread...

IK Multimedia iLoud MTM monitors, are exceptional at being able to reproduce the all important mid range required for satisfying Pianoteq playback. I have these connected to a sub-woofer and have set a crossover of 50hz on the monitors.

Not only is the mid range beautifully produced, the high frequency is very, very good, and the imaging is great!

I have them on heavy duty microphone stands, positioned at the correct height for when I'm sitting at the piano (important).

I have Pianoteq loaded into MainStage. Why? I use MainStage because I insert PSP EQ27 (amazing 'analog quality eq' and just a very small amount (1:5 ratio approx) of PSP FETpressor (see screengrab for settings).

The combination of all this results in my 'perfect' Pianoteq setup.

I am so impressed with the iLoud MTM monitors, that I have bought 2x pairs and I'm about to purchase a 3rd pair!

If you have a flat piano top with enough depth, the iLoud MTM comes supplied with and adjustable monitor mount. I have also not used the any room calibration microphone / setting up that comes with the included microphone etc.

I have a good sounding studio / space.

(Note - I was going to upload screenshots with the eq and comp settings but I'm not sure how to do this. I tried drag and drop from desktop, but I don't think this is the correct way to do it?)

Best,
Scott

Re: Powered near-field monitors for pianoteq

Just get these, it'll do every type of music besides Pianoteq and sound like you have a 9ft concert grand in the house!
or Opera!
or Live anything at home.

It's way clearer live too.


https://youtu.be/oDtUmCYh3N0

Last edited by Mk4UmHa (16-05-2020 15:48)