Topic: à la piano

I know that is an heretical concept for an organ player but is it possible to activate an option "a la piano" in Organteq that permit to play with a dynamic response of the keyboard ?

Re: à la piano

If you could map the key velocity to the volume slider, it might work.  I didn't see an option for velocity to route directly that way in Organteq when I checked, but it might be buried in a menu I didn't look at.  It might also be possible in a DAW where MIDI messages can be converted (like velocity to a CC); I believe Cubase has that kind of filtration in most higher-end versions of it (at least in Artist and Pro), which would allow you to play in realtime that way.  I don't know about other DAWs/Hosts, but I would guess that most higher-end ones would have that kind of programming built-in somehow.

While it isn't very "organ-like" in how organs are built and played today, it is actually very common in Baroque and older organs for there to be an element of "touch" which--while not necessarily changing the volume--changes the timbre of the sound by how quickly or slowly the pipes receive air.  While the effect can be badly executed, it usually adds a warmth, spontaneity, and authenticity to the sound.  After 19th Century improvements that made the wind-chest more consistently pressurized and the key action more consistent (which had to be pressurized and counter-balanced because larger pipe organs meant more internal air pressure and more effort needed to press a key to open pipes which got to the point that full organ meant pipes wouldn't open at all), those subtleties of organ-playing largely went away, but particularly for historic instrument recreation and Baroque organs, having a variable touch and timbre would be very accurate and desirable to add to Organteq.

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Re: à la piano

bernard wrote:

I know that is an heretical concept for an organ player but is it possible to activate an option "a la piano" in Organteq that permit to play with a dynamic response of the keyboard ?

In addition to the strict "organ" mode (naturally essential), a "piano" mode would indeed be a good idea, not only for taking into account the dynamic keys, but also the whole extent of an 88-key keyboard. (from 1st A), with perhaps also the possibility of being able (optional only) to also activate a sustain "on a piano way" that could be activated by one of the midi controlers, even if its absence is also an excellent keyboard exercise and of course much more realistic for the use of a real organ.
It seems likely to me that a large part of future Organteq buyers who have a good-quality 88-key keyboard, and who do not want to give up on the piano, will not acquire an organ console with an organ pedal and will also want to be able to use organteq 'at least occasionally' like a synthesizer.

Bruno

Last edited by bm (24-01-2020 09:12)

Re: à la piano

I hope Organteq does consider it. One of my favorite features of pianoteq is the ability to create completely new instruments that wouldn't be possible or practical in the real world. For example, not only can you add a sustain pedal to a harpsichord and play at different volumes depending on key velocity, but you can also have the timbre change dramatically with the dynamic change, so a gentle velocity produces a very warm tone, like a fleshy fingertip, while a forceful velocity produces a very hard tone filled with ringing overtones. Similar abilities with an organ model would be fantastic.

Re: à la piano

Totally agree with Bernard, Bruno and Nathan.
Organteq can be more than just a brilliant competitor for Hauptwerk. Modartt can go much further !

Re: à la piano

I'm learning to play the organ now. This is unbelievable!

Re: à la piano

Many theatre organs have "second touch." It's a second set of contacts on each key that close if a player pushes a little harder than normal. The second contacts activate another set of stops in addition to the ones played regularly. It allows the player to bring out a melody a little easier. A similar effect is available on some keyboards. People who have velocity sensitive keyboards will sometimes set up a velocity threshold to trigger the second touch stops of a VTPO.

Bernard, are you suggesting a kind of note-by-note on-the-fly crescendo effect that plays more or fewer stops on each note depending of the midi velocity value? Or would you keep the stops the same and have individual note expression depending on the midi expression value?

Last edited by samibe (17-02-2020 17:19)

Re: à la piano

my idea was to have a function that allows the keyboard to react to different velocities, as is the case for pianos, moreover, this possibility exists on the harpsichords offered by Modartt, an option that would allow, perhaps , a different and innovative use of the expressive possibilities, but as I am totally ignorant on the subject (organ and playing techniques) I may say nonsense

Re: à la piano

+1
I felt often that some notes cannot be played because they attack too much, velocity sensitivity would be really good here.
Also i would like to use the sustain pedal like on a piano.
It is totally fine to go beyond the real-life limitations of the organ, why not if we can?

Re: à la piano

Gaston wrote:

Totally agree with Bernard, Bruno and Nathan.
Organteq can be more than just a brilliant competitor for Hauptwerk. Modartt can go much further !

It's true that it would be great, I've tried several piano synthesizing programs, and I'd LOVE to have one with the same amount of effort put in it as OrganTeq. I mean, that's one of the main reasons why I've more or less stopped working with piano synthesizers and am now only working with organ sounds, but the organ can not necessarily convey all of the emotions and sonorities that the piano conveys and that I need in my project (the composition of the music for a narrative game).

Re: à la piano

Flanker27 wrote:

It's true that it would be great, I've tried several piano synthesizing programs, and I'd LOVE to have one with the same amount of effort put in it as OrganTeq. I mean, that's one of the main reasons why I've more or less stopped working with piano synthesizers and am now only working with organ sounds, but the organ can not necessarily convey all of the emotions and sonorities that the piano conveys and that I need in my project (the composition of the music for a narrative game).

Try Pianoteq?

Last edited by samibe (30-03-2020 16:26)