Topic: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

Since there is no off topic board here, I apologize if this is out of place and will understand if this gets removed.

I'm looking for very specific dimensions for the front half (box section) of a grand piano. Preferably a mid/large size steinway, but anything similar/standard like that will do.

Are there any resources out there that provide dimensional drawings? I've posted on pianoworld forums but people linked only to some very basic overall dimensions. I need things like the following picture represents.

Or is there anyone with a grand who would offer to make some specific measurements for me? I could also go to a local church or something and ask to see their piano, but I'm not sure how good of an idea it is right now.

https://i.imgur.com/iNQiC5F.jpg

Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

The question is interesting, but I am at least a little bit interested in why you want these dimensions, i.e. is it so that you an build a cabinet ?.

When considering such a project myself I quickly realized that existing pianos are to some extent constrained by the rest of the piano.
"kEYBOARD" cabinets need not be constrained by any need to accommodate hammers and strings.

Also, any music stand`could be at a height appropriate for YOUR individual needs - or could be replaced by a monitor to display digitally stored scores.

 
I  wouldn't limit myself to the furniture designs of 100 years ago

Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

aandrmusic wrote:

The question is interesting, but I am at least a little bit interested in why you want these dimensions, i.e. is it so that you an build a cabinet ?.

When considering such a project myself I quickly realized that existing pianos are to some extent constrained by the rest of the piano.
"kEYBOARD" cabinets need not be constrained by any need to accommodate hammers and strings.

Also, any music stand`could be at a height appropriate for YOUR individual needs - or could be replaced by a monitor to display digitally stored scores.
 
I  wouldn't limit myself to the furniture designs of 100 years ago

You're correct, I'm planning on building a grand-style cabinet (front box portion only) to put the digital piano in. I've already done a prototype with more of an upright style speaker cabinet, and it has made me realize I would like the look, and probably the sound, of a grand style better because of the different speaker placement. I have seen many similar projects, and it always irks me that people make it look kind of like a grand, but it never really looks that great to me. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to have fun and take the time to make it look legit, or as legit as I can with what I have! So getting the right dimensions from the start will help me to achieve that goal. I just also really love the way Steinway or similar designs look.

Of course, I need to make sure it will accomadate the DP I will be using it, and any future upgrade, so I have plans to account for that as well in the build.

Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

Sorry for taking longer to reply than I had planned, but I needed a little extra time to check me library for these details since I don't have a grand at my disposal (and coronavirus and an earthquake haven't made things easier either).

Unfortunately, most of the information you're after is usually considered too trivial to print in diagrams, spec sheets, or patents, and varies significantly from manufacturer to manufacturer and from piano model to piano model.  Part of the reason it's treated as trivial is that most rebuilders rarely have a reason to replace that part of the case, and if they do, the case is usually there to be measured.  I would recommend calling a piano rebuilder or a good registered piano technician and asking for the measurements in mm of each part you're curious about.  Since you're not concerned about the make and model--or at least not very concerned--whatever results you get should be representative of most instruments in the industry.

For the technical jargon, it appears you want to know the height of the fallboard, the length and height of cheek, the height of the rim, the height of the music shelf cavity, the height of the keyslip, and the height of the keybed.  Some of these can be found here: https://www.steinway.com/pianos/steinway/grand/model-d

Key top height is usually standard at 730mm, which is generally a lot more important than the thickness of the keybed or keyslip, because--as long as the area below the keys isn't unreasonably tall--it only matters that you are able to adjust your bench to fit that common key top height.  Most manufacturers (like the links below) will specify everything in relation to the key top height to keep measurements references consistent between pianos, because technicians have enough to cope with before adding different measurement schemes and baselines for each piano maker.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/fe/19...6affa7.gif
https://www.piano.christophersmit.com/keyblock.html
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9e/20/90/9e20...design.jpg

It's possible that there's more information in "The Official Guide to Steinway Pianos" by David R. Kirkland and Roy F. Kehl, but I don't have a copy right now.  Though a few forum members do.  I also don't have access to any instruments but my own during the "social distancing" time we live in, but I wish I could help solve your need in one post.

I have checked "Piano" by John-Paul Williams and "Steinway" by Ronald Ratcliff, and I didn't find anything that would help.  I didn't check "Piano: The Making of a Steinway Concert Grand" by James Barron, "Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding: For the Professional, the Student, and the Hobbyist" by Arthur A. Reblitz, "Pianos Inside Out: A Comprehensive Guide to Piano Tuning, Repairing, and Rebuilding" by Mario Igrec, or "88 Keys: The Making of a Steinway Piano" by Miles Chapin since I don't have copies of any of those, and I don't if anyone in the forums does (and to be truthful some of these books in the list are the finest resources on the market and some are almost worthless).  While I doubt any written source will have the information you're looking for in a single diagram, these books would be the most likely to have it if any books do.

I did a quick look at Dolge's "Pianos and their Makers" which is a wonderful resource but didn't have anything that I could see that would be helpful to you, but being a free, out-of-copyright book, you can take a look for anything I may have missed here: https://archive.org/details/pianostheir...mode/thumb

As I said before, I would recommend contacting a rebuilder or registered piano technician in your area.  Explain your needs and project--be honest and direct--and see if someone helps you.  You may need to be patient, but somebody will have what you're looking for or be able to take the time (which I would gladly do but I can't because of quarantine plus road cloasures after an earthquake--so I wouldn't recommend that you wait on me).   Sometimes rebuilders and--more often--technicians have uprights and grands that will be sent to the trash, and you get them for free or under $200.  Since you don't need anything but the case to be working, one of those doomed pianos could be gutted and retrofitted for your needs, so having local contacts for your project could help you even more then just with dimensions.  I would say the average in my area would be about 10-20 pianos a week are sent to the trash because they're not worth the cost of rebuilding, and it's usually a rebuilder or technician who makes that call.

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Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

tmyoung wrote:

...As I said before, I would recommend contacting a rebuilder or registered piano technician in your area.  Explain your needs and project--be honest and direct--and see if someone helps you.  You may need to be patient, but somebody will have what you're looking for or be able to take the time (which I would gladly do but I can't because of quarantine plus road cloasures after an earthquake--so I wouldn't recommend that you wait on me).   Sometimes rebuilders and--more often--technicians have uprights and grands that will be sent to the trash, and you get them for free or under $200.  Since you don't need anything but the case to be working, one of those doomed pianos could be gutted and retrofitted for your needs, so having local contacts for your project could help you even more then just with dimensions.  I would say the average in my area would be about 10-20 pianos a week are sent to the trash because they're not worth the cost of rebuilding, and it's usually a rebuilder or technician who makes that call.

Wow thank you for such a lengthy response! I will definitely search through the links you provided. It is interesting that it is so difficult to find dimensions of these parts of pianos. I suppose it is as you said, just not needed often.

I will definitely contact some rebuilders in the area, and stay safe!!

Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

aandrmusic wrote:

The question is interesting, but I am at least a little bit interested in why you want these dimensions, i.e. is it so that you an build a cabinet ?.

When considering such a project myself I quickly realized that existing pianos are to some extent constrained by the rest of the piano.
"kEYBOARD" cabinets need not be constrained by any need to accommodate hammers and strings.

Also, any music stand`could be at a height appropriate for YOUR individual needs - or could be replaced by a monitor to display digitally stored scores.

 
I  wouldn't limit myself to the furniture designs of 100 years ago

If you put labels like A, B, C on your brackets it would be easier to answer.

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Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

I was trying to say (approximately) design for comfort and convenience.

Traditional pianos allow ONLY adjustment of bench height and distance from the key bed, i.e. the piano itself is fixed.
You have the freedom to change many of the dimensions and/or to make them adjustable.
You are not bound to the limitations of strings,  sound board, lid, etc on the other side of the keys.

Of course if you intend to use this as a training tool in order to become a concert pianist.... then you probably DO want something as close to the physical
dimensions of a Steinway D as possible.

Re: Seeking specific dimensions of a grand piano

GRB wrote:
aandrmusic wrote:

The question is interesting, but I am at least a little bit interested in why you want these dimensions, i.e. is it so that you an build a cabinet ?.

When considering such a project myself I quickly realized that existing pianos are to some extent constrained by the rest of the piano.
"kEYBOARD" cabinets need not be constrained by any need to accommodate hammers and strings.

Also, any music stand`could be at a height appropriate for YOUR individual needs - or could be replaced by a monitor to display digitally stored scores.

 
I  wouldn't limit myself to the furniture designs of 100 years ago

If you put labels like A, B, C on your brackets it would be easier to answer.

You could just reference the ?'s from left to right, if you like?