Pianoteq - some newbie pre-purchase questions

@Qexl OK
So, these packs it's really different phys. mod. engines ? I mean - i really will not able to reproduce timbres from Steelpans pack thru advanced settings of default P6 Standard phys. mod engine ?

Every additional instrument is a kind of "core" sound. You have access to some parameters to tweak the sound as you like (the more higher version you buy, the more parameters you have access), but you don't have access to the core sound itself.
So, a new instrument is not only a set of new presets.

That means that whatever you do, whatever you tweak, you can't obtain the sound of the Harpsichord starting from the Steinway D...

As Qexl said, there is a "Freeze parameters" function in the menu... If you do freeze ALL, then, the setting of each parameter will stay the same when you change the instruments, even from one pack to another.

@ab459,

it would be impossible to explain all settings - you can demo Pro, to see if you want it though. The "note edit mode" is astounding - paint curves for all 30 parameters - use pre-defined 'haircut', or harmonic shapes to pain with and son on.. as well as ability to adjust down to fractions and typing in inputs per note.. so precise, if needed. So powerful even where precision is not required.

If you are interested in sound design, as well as realism in pianos, myself and others use Pianoteq for replacing the kinds of sounds we've used synthesizers for - I've been using synths since late 70s - easy to understand Piantoeq, then work on it in any way you want.

Click "Random" button for basic examples of unique territory - bring back sliders closer to 'normal' and hear how 'the piano' puts itself slowly back together before our ears.. or make it sound more extremely remote from reality.

Choose a different instrument/preset - repeat.. find aspects you like - dive in.

Explore pushing 2 sliders in an 'adversarial' sense - set one highest and the other lowest - find which sliders create the most interesting sounds when combined. (try for example, doing this with "Sympathetic resonance" vs. "Duplex Scale" - or "Cutoff" vs. "Q factor"

(We could also try to think like Philippe about pianos to learn the physics behind it).

You will only truly "understand" these things by moving the sliders, loading presets, reading the manual and so on.

I personally say get Pianoteq Pro - get Studio bundle to save on all instruments. It took me a short while to realise, I definitely would collect them all, and Studio bundle gave me something like 40% off all instruments - but up front. I will have to buy new instruments of course, but if you buy Studio, you get everything, plus anything released in following 1 year. If lucky, more than one.

Just a note - there has been no new piano for a while - so, buying Studio "might" be a good timing thing now - only because, how often have we seen Pianoteq launch 2 new ones in a a few months?.. nobody can guarantee that - but rationalising these things gives grounds for this statistical reality.

Pro gives higher sample rate and the extra editability is excellent, if you know you're going to be experimenting and making realistic pianos.. it's my only software piano these days - after many decades. I'm not new to it - and recommend it for all its strengths.

Oh, I think I understand (apologies to you, if this is not quite what you mean):

Maybe this helps: The "Effects" section is the same in all versions of Pianoteq - so you get modulation, amp, EQU3 etc. with Stage, Standard and Pro. These effects though, are "post production" in so far as they affect the sound as it has 'left the engine' already.

In Pro, we have all the tools that Standard has, we expect that of course - extra power is due to the ability to deeply edit in way more detailed ways all these controls over the engine, more finely detailed than just using the sliders, is kind of where real power and detail lies - because, if you edit for example, the overtones with certain harmonic sensibilities you can literally say "The entire piano now sounds like a different one" - not just an altered one, or a fantasy one based on a Bluethner - but "assigning frequencies to notes - and having them all interact = 'new piano'.

I mention that because, context is required for a reasonable showing of ability - and one thing which Standard and Pro have, is the 8 sliders for "spectrum profile". Those 8 are good, to lift and lower distinct bands - but on the front interface, these bands only can edit "what's already there". Maybe this says it better..

In Pro, YOU get to shape the profile (which to me, is piano DNA in terms of the engine). You can then certainly go to the front panel and use spectrum slider 1 to increase the fundamental and son on - but to actually describe your own spectrum? That's so much detail.. but, brushes to help shape it are in the tools. If you understand any of that, then you'll know I hope, how good this is to work with.

* We already know note-per note editing is there in Pro.

* Higher sample rates (helpful for studio working/mixing/editing so down-sampling = easier to control)

* a list of 30 or so tools within the per note editor - allowing much greater controls over all tools shared in Standard/Pro.

detune
unison width
unison balance
direct sound duration
Hammer hard. piano
Hammer hard. mezzo
Hammer hard. forte
spectrum profile
hammer noise
strike point
pinch harmonic point
pickup symetry
pickup distance
impedance
cutoff
q factor
string length
sympathetic resonance
duplex scale resonance
blooming energy
blooming inertia
hammer tine noise
aftertouch sensitivity
mute
damper position
damper duration
damper noise
key release noise
dynamics
volume

I'm sorry that I don't have Standard installed, but assuming most/all are there - but here's the Pro version's great advantages.

Inside note edit mode, for many of the list of tools, for example:

* "random" shaping for your drawn or entered data (visually shape any of 30 tools)
* "smooth" shaping again, very helpful.
* "rescale" - THIS is great - You can "click and drag" up/down to raise/lower your lines (%) maintaining shape, which is fantastic for 'keeping character' of a set change, but raising/lessening overall effect across any or all notes.
* "reset" - to return your 'drawn' or entered data to start condition (handy if you draw too large or small, and find it best to return to flat condition).
* "Simple Draw" - which is the button to select a brush for drawing freehand, plain or with computed values attached..

In Simple Draw mode, these are the "brushes" you can choose to draw with:

Many most tools will give 3 brushes:

* "Simple" - drawing in data, like painting with a mouse in an art program.
* "Haircut" - takes only data away above/below line - to quickly cut but not add.
* "Octave" - wherever you draw, the curves/shapes/waves/dips/etc. are 1 octave - so you see all octaves being drawn at the same time. (think 'tuning' you can do octave specific work here).

Plus - in "Spectrum Profile" the brushes you can use include:

* Simple draw, as above type - draw your line free style.
* Haircut - for shaving data away, sculpting.
* Fill only - you can leave behind 'select' portions of drawn data - takes some skill maybe to recognise a use for it - but it's valuable.
* Harmonic 1
* Harmonic 2
* Harmonic 3 - each with a different 'shaping' so if you draw with these brushes, you are bringing out 3 distinct 'flavours' - experiment with each in different octaves for example - ears will decide.
* Comb 2
* Comb 3
* Comb 4 and
*Comb 5 - sort of similar to above - pre-shaped so you can draw at left, or dot, and the rest fills in with defined comb - you can keep clicking to lift and lower 'shaped' data - I suppose it's very much easier to demonstrate than describe.
* Major - gives chordal pleasance to key based tuning in maj. (piano tuners, or Philippe might describe these best - and I'm not sure if Modartt will add more 'key-like' brushes in future - but it could be interesting having overtones shimmer with susp4 or varous maj7susp9 and so on - overkill, though that may be
* Octave - again like above it will contain overtones to affect 'related' octaves inhabited by the changed freq. value.

The Spectrum edit tool, allows to edit

"All notes at once"

or

"individual notes"

This to me, is extremely powerful and maybe the best reason to access these Pro features - IMO - you can ultimately introduce "bell" or "buzz" or limitless "artifacts" into any idea you have for a "unique piano" or indeed, entire soundscape of noises.

Some brushes can be used to brush and also 'spot' in just one overtone at a time as well (which auto-draws in the matching data throughout the whole piano note series - black magic effect)

I hope that's addressing your question

It has been some years since I updated - I had become unaware that Pro has no demo - cheers to you.

Well, sorry Stage edition is definitely not option for me (as well sets of typical timbres). Ability of change physical elements for impact to timbral result in maximal available range seems to me most interesting aspect in this product, as i already said for various sound experiments tasks.
I even would say, current ranges of change of each phys. parameter i would gladly see like increased twice, because in my taste they still has sometimes pretty subtle affect (some of them).
But I understand that this request could disrupt the some border at marketing territory, i.e. about value (expediency) of individual instrument packages.
Therefore, we forced accept it as it is (and joying that even such access to parameters exists at all heh).
Unfortunately, there are not so many products on the market with high-quality physical modeling.

Hi ab459,

it comes with the 3 instruments you choose from the Pianoteq instrument list.

Depending on what music you wish to make, there's a lot of choice there - all the other instruments there are great for sound design too - it's up to you of course

Don't forget to visit the free Pianoteq instruments selection also - some great extras there like early pianos, harpsichords, bells.

Cheers.

Yes, as i said i already knew about this ability, but wondered about exactly  except that three, i mean - i thought that some default piano already could presented like default main engine. So, nope?

Ofcourse that will useful too, but btw interesting, do really the freeware Harpsichords a much different compare with paid one ? https://www.modartt.com/harpsichord Maybe someone did check.
(In the Standard demo version there is no freeware instruments for test, so, i can't compare).
Just, it's fun i planned to grab among three exactly Harpsichord heh. But before not a much explored list of free stuff, so, now unsure - if freeware harpsichord will not worse, maybe then better to choose something other.

Hmm, well yes, i definitely will upgrade to Pro asap (i guess during next sale. Grab Pro from scratch it's a much for my purse unfortunately).

BTW interesting, do i will have ability to choose additional fourth instrument after upgrade to Pro ?

Obviously, I mean - for free (since Pro version allow select 4 instruments)

Let me see: September 16, 2016.  It seems a coincidence, you registered on my birthday of that year.

Ok Thanks

Btw, why not in all instruments works trick when you press to "plus" icon, and appear additional yellow keys in keyboard ?
Yes i understand that it's some "unplanned notes" (compare to real instrument) but anyway. At some instruments if enable "plus" some keys stay grey (inactive).
This is not a bug ?

no no, "they" is who ? i talk about demo version (Standard), and some instruments that i see in it.
For example - in "Steinway D" it works, while in "Steinway B" or "Bechstein" (and in many other pianos) left keys stay gray even with enabled "plus" button. That what i mean.

Oh ok, thanks.

I'll see if I have time later to put together more of a demo of the Spectrum Profile Note Edit, but here's a quick overview of how I use it and for what.

To me, there's no question that it's the most powerful editing tool in PTQ, but I don't necessarily change that much about it between profiles.  In essence, it is a per-note/per-key graphic equalizer stepped to each overtone of the harmonic series (starting at the 1st overtone and going to up to the 132nd overtone on the lower note--roughly 27Hz-6.1kHz--and from the 1st overtone to the 4th overtone on the highest note--4.2kHz-19.2kHz).  There may be a few vst equalizers or hardware that do something similar: I think they're marketed as "harmonic equalizers" or "overtone exciters" but they won't work on a per-note basis.  This function gives extraordinary control of the sound quality in PTQ, but it's very easy to overuse that control.  If you look at the profiles provided by PTQ in Pro, only about half of the notes have something other than a flat spectrum, and of those nearly all have fewer than four edits most of which are within the 1st-8th overtones and less than +/-6dB: a little change to anything in this window will go a very, very long way!

As more overtones are added, the over sound of a key will muddy and even "beat" and feel higher-pitched than it actually is, while removing overtones generally cleans the sound but loses power and resonance in the process.  Ultimately no overtones becomes an extremely muted sound that better resembles a prepared piano or a plucking a non-speaking duplex string.  Setting the entire profile to 70dB on a single note reminds me of when a string snapped in my upright but didn't fall into the piano body--so you could strike it and hear something but it was a terribly weak, wobbling sound that was only vaguely reminiscent of it's tensioned pitch.

Normally, I reserve use of the per-note spectrum profile to make obvious changes to piano scaling features like the bridge switch or doubly/triply wound strings, since a major change in overtones between two notes will call the player's attention to those features very easily.  I also will "rough" up the spectrum of a few notes just to make each preset feel unique from another--similar to changing the random seed of the Condition slider just to change it.

You can get a pretty good sense of what the Note Edit's profiler will do by altering the main spectrum profile in PTQ Standard (which makes the same 1st-8th overtone spectrum changes for the entire piano compass).  If you like the level of control that Standard feature gives you but you want to really control the sound of each note or piano range (for historical instrument recreation, alternate brand modeling, or personal taste), then the Pro feature will be indispensable--otherwise the Standard feature is rather powerful in its own right.  A good example of "needing" the Pro function is in making pianoteq presets for extended bass range instruments like the Chris Maene Straight Strung, the Boesendorfer Imperial series, or the Stuart & Sons 108-key because they'll have a very different behavior of overtones (stronger, warmer overtones across the lower 1/4 of the keyboard) because of additional sympathetic strings than a regular 88-key instrument.  Another scenario would be emulating older Steinways that have bridge switches, steel bass strings, or bichord/trichord switches in different places along the scaling than their contemporary cousins.  Pianos with tetrachords (like the Borgato 333 Grand Prix) or extended treble range (the Stuart and Sons 108-key) will also have different overtones, but those differences tend to be better emulated (or at least equally-well emulated) with per-note volume changes and full spectrum profile edits for the whole piano compass which are still available to edit in Standard.

Remember you can edit the note-edit mode spectrum with brush tools - so doesn't need to be more complex than swishing left to right with the mouse - and adding as much extra detail as desired.

The manual shows well the 3 ways of working with it. At first glance, you may think you need to edit each note (a lot of work)..

but - you can set 'control notes' say lowest and highest notes, then paint in different shapes for the overtones with the brushes for each - and the rest of the notes in the middle get auto-calculated (interpolated, morphing between the 2).

I like to go adding a click of "random" for each note (takes a minute).. gives a final fuzz of reality.

Lastly, for sound design, it can be very good for replacing synthesizers - I make pads, soundscapes and use heavily treated piano sounds in all sorts of contemporary pieces.. sometimes it's great  to tweak a 'real piano' in a realistic way but if you move sliders to extremes, play around with 2 vs. each other and hearing what this does, you can with little time learn how to make extremely variant sound designs as well as very real pianos of our own making.

Cheers to you.

I think you've made a wise choice.  You can always upgrade to Pro later, and Standard can load any presets/changes made in Pro.  I functioned well in Standard for about 6-12 months, and then I needed Pro.  I don't regret getting used to Standard for a while and I certainly don't regret getting Pro.

Happy to know you have Standard ab459, good news. tm is definitely right, it will be enough to keep you inspired

Hehe I remember this also - very good timing for the demo - just enough so you enter into deep thought mode "Oh, wow, I see.. OK, then what else can I do with these controls and this ...", then time out

Yes, also with sound design - it's just endless.. with just a few DAW plugins (for infinity reverbs etc), you can make such incredibly interesting sounds. The physical modeling really helps make texturing backgrounds more "alarmingly" organic in this era, almost as much as synths gave us alarming plasticity (beyond samples, it's more musical, intuitive etc.). While it's of piano DNA, it's also capable of becoming bowed and warm, or cold and stark in all sorts of ways. (trying high 'energy' slider settings to make attack slower can remove some piano heritage and quickly get somewhere towards pad sounds).

Don't overlook the onboard effects, the Amp on low drive settings can introduce a lovely console warmth for modern sounds and there's the usual phase/flange/chorus and tremolo. I often find I don't use as many effects in the DAW for my Pianoteq tracks, when in the past I would feel more necessity to 'cloak' basic synths with a wash of reverbs and filters.. but Pianoteq is just so interesting as an instrument when pushed into obscure sonic territory, it requires less effects, but maybe more musicality (it encourages better playing, which I love, just so playable).

Cheers to you - Enjoy