Microphone Piano X Physical Modeling

When Pianoteq 3.0 was first released, I got the impression the binaural mode is its software microphone alternative.  Also it will position pianos in a DAW mix intended for loud speakers!

Now you get realism, realistic recordings from industry microphones and these simulations MODARTT offers.  Although if it were me, I’d resist any temptation to label a microphone “perfect” somehow, perfect-omni or perfect-fig8  —because of religious reasons.  (Smile.)

Philippe-

Would you consider adding a preset to each of the pianos set up as you have described?I generally don't muck about with the microphone placement and such, but would like to hear all the pianos set up as you described.

Indeed if you are considering a possible additional preset, to presumably each piano, I’d like eagerly to acquire it at a nominal sum and in some form of a microphone add-on value pack.

Another forum member has very successfully used a pair of AKG D202 microphones as an example.  David recorded the Concours International de Piano de Nice 2019 piano and sectional performances via those microphones unavailable to end users right now.  Although he inarguably is himself as much of a PIANOTEQ end user as anybody else who thankfully uses this magnificent software.

Our opinions, his and mine, differ about the Earthworks PM-40 Mic system  —whether or not it along with several other microphones can contribute significantly to anybody just beginning to learn about microphone placements in or out of PIANOTEQ.  Certainly, David is of the opinion it is expensive, while I feel if it were soon to become available only as part of an add-on pack inside PIANOTEQ, MODARTT might make it affordable to persons like me.  Those whose budgets are small.  Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

This discussion about microphones in broad usage outside PIANOTEQ softwares comes out of the User forum topic Valuable, large site for learning more about mic positions.  To which I may repost the below videos or just furnish links to them.  These do show the Earthworks PM-40 Mic system in a favorable light; each I've labeled from my impressions of them:

• Comtemplative

• Personable

• Instructional

After several analyzes, I can deduce that a physically modeled piano sounding through loudspeakers cannot sound like a real piano on a soundboard, however, it can sound perfectly like a real microphonized piano.

Another issue is that there is no way for a piano to sound through speakers if not through microphones. For this reason, Pianoteq uses algorithms that simulate miking.

Would this problem be solved if the Pianoteq had a special output for a flat surface acoustic transducer, to be fixed on a wooden board? Would it sound like a real piano?

Does the output stereophonic mode use perfect omnis microphones on all acoustic instruments?

Here are the mics used in  output stereophonic mode:
YC5: DPA4006,
Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway B, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrof: U87-fig8,
Celesta, Glockenspiel, Marimba, Vibraphone V-M, Xylophone, Toy piano: perfect-fig8,
all other instruments: perfect omnis.

The other mics do not really loose anything in the frequency range, they rather add some particular color to the sound, which may suit or not, and as in painting, it is essentially an artistic/aesthetic choice.

Based on Amen Ptah Ra's interesting experiments with adding the PM40 to PTQ, I did a little experimentation as well on a New York (-ish) Model B to match the video from Earthworks demoing the PM40 or PM40T (my understanding is they're the same system with a different bar to allow travel).  While I don't begin to think it's perfect or would replace what PTQ could do internally with the mic code, it offers another flavor of close miking for the community.

https://forum.modartt.com/file/7wukvwmi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQx-dCtd3po

I can't measure as carefully how close mine matches it or not, especially since I don't have as much Jazz MIDI material as I do classical.  (Matching Cziffra to piano rolls of the same classical pieces was much easier than matching an improv clip with Gershwin's piano rolls.)

I found it most interesting, as I worked with the PTQ Mic engine in new ways, that turning on Level Compensation not only compensates the levels of microphones between each other but also between individual microphones and each note of the instrument, which was unexpected but extremely useful since the "pure" omnis seem to have some significant proximity effect if level compensation is off.  Hard panning the mics also made them feel a little more like the PM40s.  I also placed the mics farther away from the dampers, like Earthworks suggests in the manual, which seemed to even the tone as well.  Even with that change, the right side was getting too much volume, so I dialed it back.  I liked the 4 and 5 mic sound best, which makes me wonder if the 6.1 engine improvements to add more "air" to the sound mean that to emulate the distinct quality of the PM40, you need two sets of them in PTQ, so I left 2 pairs of PM40s and a room mic, if you miss room sound.

I would definitely love many more "colorations" of microphones in future PTQ releases.  I suspect that is something that we might see as 7.0 comes onto the horizon--whenever that is.

Here are a few other resources that may help with regard to the PM40 that I used while putting the preset together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vRwiwj0vsI (good A/B tests on a Hallet Davis baby grand)
https://earthworksaudio.com/products/mi...ies/pm40t/ (Earthworks technical overview of the PM40)

I see what you’re doing, Professor; and, I like it!

Professor about any of the questions you pose and in particular, “Would this problem be solved if the Pianoteq had a special output for a flat surface acoustic transducer, to be fixed on a wooden board?” I’m sure, if MODARTT colorfully can create additional mics (modeled) in an effort to increase its visibility amongst discerning keyboardists, by the broadened spectrum of mic model selection for current and future pianos, and, artistic purposes, especially, it just as importantly can surface modeled transducers themselves and make them output options as well.

I sit at my modest MIDI capable entry level digital piano.  It’s a YAMAHA DIGITAL PIANO P-95 with a silver colored finish that beautifully matches an iMac, its keyboard and trackpad, M-AUDIO STUDIOPRO 4 monitors and various small kitchen appliances (rice cooker, ice cream maker, soy milk maker, Etc.) also setup in a kitchenette area.  (I may provide pictures later.)  While I am no decision making CEO certainly, I do as an end user (who really likes to hear music) wonder if a company such as MODARTT will ever decide to model transducers, if it as an entity can become induced to do so.  Even if it does for the big players the kind you find in orchestras like the Berliner Philharmoniker (with its Steingraeber), small piano manufactures and municipal symphonies might benefit too from this sort of a four and a half (4 1/2) generation transducer thingy.

Whenever MODARTT does, a small player who sits at his or her baby grand in a home will have the ability to change the temperament of that acoustic as quickly as one does the Steingraeber.  That is if makers of PNOscan and others get onboard also.  Some professional installation is necessary.  (Have to set up a board meeting?)

Hopefully, they possibly will get together as soon as I get an Earthworks system modeled inside Pianoteq and you get the name of the creator of that preset along with presets made by other known producers and Grammy winners!

These presets sound wonderful, Amen and tm.

And thanks for keeping alive the idea of addon mics and producer packs. The IKMultimedia program Amplitube suggests that this could be aesthetically and commercially viable.

One other request--that in modelling mics, all of their features and response patterns be included. For the nicely-modelled AKG C414, we only have their cardioid pattern. Here's a video of using two AKG 414's to mic a grand, sometimes using their omni pattern. (The video loses synch with the audio near the end, but he gets a great piano sound.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNI0uufktUc