Topic by hougtimo

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Topic: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to upgrade to either a piano from the current Casio GP range featuring the action by C.Bechstein or a Kawai (CA97 or CS11) with the Grand Feel II action. I work in a piano showroom, so I know I really like the feel of both these pianos, but I haven't yet had the chance to plug them into my Macbook and use either with Pianoteq.

Do both play nicely with Pianoteq via USB midi?

Does anyone here use either of these with Pianoteq?

Would be very interested to hear any opinions / experiences!

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

hougtimo wrote:

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to upgrade to either a piano from the current Casio GP range featuring the action by C.Bechstein or a Kawai (CA97 or CS11) with the Grand Feel II action. I work in a piano showroom, so I know I really like the feel of both these pianos, but I haven't yet had the chance to plug them into my Macbook and use either with Pianoteq.

Do both play nicely with Pianoteq via USB midi?

Does anyone here use either of these with Pianoteq?

Would be very interested to hear any opinions / experiences!

Having owned a Kawai VPC and having looked into Casio's hybrid pianos with a view to purchase, I can assure you that the Casio utilises much better quality control than the kawai. I was very disappointed with the Kawai VPC1. If I had had the means to buy a Casio hybrid, I would have done.

Casio also has very good midi integration i.e. very smooth midi velocity response.

Hope this helps,

Warmest regards and happy Christmas,

Chris

Reply by tmyoung

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

I second that.

I had the exact same debate last year, and I went with the GP300 because of the action (which felt more realistic than the Kawai alternatives) and because I didn't need to buy or build a stand.  I use it nearly every day for multi-hour (and very demanding) practice sessions, and I haven't had any issues with it--it was plug-and-play from day one, which is more than I can say for the M-Audio monster it replaced.  I needed to make my own velocity curve and getting it into my upstairs studio was rather interesting, but I've been totally thrilled with the results.

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Reply by davidizquierdo82

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

hougtimo wrote:

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to upgrade to either a piano from the current Casio GP range featuring the action by C.Bechstein or a Kawai (CA97 or CS11) with the Grand Feel II action. I work in a piano showroom, so I know I really like the feel of both these pianos, but I haven't yet had the chance to plug them into my Macbook and use either with Pianoteq.

Do both play nicely with Pianoteq via USB midi?

Does anyone here use either of these with Pianoteq?

Would be very interested to hear any opinions / experiences!

I frenquently play PTQ with my CA97 as a controller, cannot say anything but good about it in this sense.

The best experience I've had with this combo is through headphones, can spend hours playing and tweaking the sound to my liking.. cannot say the same when it comes to playing it through my CA97 internal speakers, it just sounds weird and poor (CA97 speakers are somehow filtered to get the best out of the internal sounds I guess, which Kawai mastered in my opinion).

External monitors is also possible, but I sometimes miss the realism given by the headphones (maybe because you're too aware of the source of sound).

Regards,
David

P85>Kawai CA97>Numa XGT>FP90X>LX706
Pianoteq 8 Pro (all instruments) + Organteq 2
i7 4790K W11 64bits + UMC1820 + MTM + DT770 pro X
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Reply by bm

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

Pianoteq works well with casio GP500 (same action as GP400). Even if, on a daily basis, the action, although easier to use, remains below the Renner mechanics of my acoustic piano.

Regards

Bruno

Reply by hougtimo

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

Thanks guys - really helpful replies.

I've managed to bring my Macbook into work today and plug a Casio GP into PTQ & have to say it works and feels really good. I will try with the Kawai later on.

There's a couple of things to weigh up here too. If I wanted to play the piano quickly without the hassle of plugging in the laptop, the Kawai is a good enough all round package to get a relatively decent sound out of. The Casio just isn't! I don't know what Casio have or haven't done with their sound engine but it really is crap. On the flip-side; the Kawai action looks to need maintenance during its life.

I'd only ever play PTQ with headphones, so the speaker setup of the piano isn't a concern.

Reply by lovelovemale

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

Davidizquierdo82 Can you share your velocity curve in Pianoteq for your CA97 ?
I just bought a Kawai 98 and the GFII should be the same!

Thanks a lot!

davidizquierdo82 wrote:
hougtimo wrote:

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to upgrade to either a piano from the current Casio GP range featuring the action by C.Bechstein or a Kawai (CA97 or CS11) with the Grand Feel II action. I work in a piano showroom, so I know I really like the feel of both these pianos, but I haven't yet had the chance to plug them into my Macbook and use either with Pianoteq.

Do both play nicely with Pianoteq via USB midi?

Does anyone here use either of these with Pianoteq?

Would be very interested to hear any opinions / experiences!

I frenquently play PTQ with my CA97 as a controller, cannot say anything but good about it in this sense.

The best experience I've had with this combo is through headphones, can spend hours playing and tweaking the sound to my liking.. cannot say the same when it comes to playing it through my CA97 internal speakers, it just sounds weird and poor (CA97 speakers are somehow filtered to get the best out of the internal sounds I guess, which Kawai mastered in my opinion).

External monitors is also possible, but I sometimes miss the realism given by the headphones (maybe because you're too aware of the source of sound).

Regards,
David

Reply by davidizquierdo82

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

lovelovemale wrote:

Davidizquierdo82 Can you share your velocity curve in Pianoteq for your CA97 ?
I just bought a Kawai 98 and the GFII should be the same!

Thanks a lot!

davidizquierdo82 wrote:
hougtimo wrote:

Hi Guys,

I'm looking to upgrade to either a piano from the current Casio GP range featuring the action by C.Bechstein or a Kawai (CA97 or CS11) with the Grand Feel II action. I work in a piano showroom, so I know I really like the feel of both these pianos, but I haven't yet had the chance to plug them into my Macbook and use either with Pianoteq.

Do both play nicely with Pianoteq via USB midi?

Does anyone here use either of these with Pianoteq?

Would be very interested to hear any opinions / experiences!

I frenquently play PTQ with my CA97 as a controller, cannot say anything but good about it in this sense.

The best experience I've had with this combo is through headphones, can spend hours playing and tweaking the sound to my liking.. cannot say the same when it comes to playing it through my CA97 internal speakers, it just sounds weird and poor (CA97 speakers are somehow filtered to get the best out of the internal sounds I guess, which Kawai mastered in my opinion).

External monitors is also possible, but I sometimes miss the realism given by the headphones (maybe because you're too aware of the source of sound).

Regards,
David

Congrats on your new CA98, try out the VT (manual editing), you can get some awesome results guaranteed.

As for Pianoteq, I just stick to the default 45° curve, works fine for me.

Regards,
David

P85>Kawai CA97>Numa XGT>FP90X>LX706
Pianoteq 8 Pro (all instruments) + Organteq 2
i7 4790K W11 64bits + UMC1820 + MTM + DT770 pro X
http://youtube.com/DavidIzquierdoAzzouz

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Reply by hougtimo

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

I have some more questions, sorry guys. Having had the Casio GP500 plugged into my MacBook today I have noticed the following:

1. Notes sound before the key gets to the bottom of its travel. Is this normal? The acoustic grands I have access to strike the string as the key gets to the bottom of its travel. The casio seems to sound about half way down the travel.

2. I can't get the piano to output a velocity of less than about 20 and no higher than 100. Seems a bit strange?!

Tried a factory reset on the piano just to be sure, but the same is happening.

Reply by hougtimo

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

Well, after waiting for Kawai’s new CA-79 and CA-99 to be released before I made my decision, I had the opportunity to acquire a Casio GP300. I know it’s the previous generation model, but all I wanted it for is the action!

I now have it at home and have been tweaking Pianoteq’s Bechstein Digital Grand and... just wow. This set up is a million times better than using Pianoteq with my previous Casio PX770.

Having a nice action seems to make all the difference, and I now have an fabulous home setup for practise, and just generally to enjoy playing!

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Casio C.Bechstein vs Kawai GFII for use with Pianoteq

hougtimo wrote:

Well, after waiting for Kawai’s new CA-79 and CA-99 to be released before I made my decision, I had the opportunity to acquire a Casio GP300. I know it’s the previous generation model, but all I wanted it for is the action!

I now have it at home and have been tweaking Pianoteq’s Bechstein Digital Grand and... just wow. This set up is a million times better than using Pianoteq with my previous Casio PX770.

Having a nice action seems to make all the difference, and I now have an fabulous home setup for practise, and just generally to enjoy playing!

Unquestionably in my opinion you have made the right decision. The manufacturing quality of the Casio Hybrids are much higher than the Kawai series (except the Nuvo 10). In fact, I was considering a Casio Hybrid myself but in the end I couldn't afford it at the time. I now have a Yamaha P515 with which I am very happy.

I had a Kawai VPC1 and was disappointed with the quality of the keys and the irregular velocity response.

Enjoy you GP300,

Warmest Regards,

Chris