Topic: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Hi, again, maybe a very "easy" questions for you guys but not as easy as understand for me

Say, I get Pianoteq connected to my Audio interface an Steinberg UR44 from where I get connected two nearfield monitors

I still got outputs in my UR44 for another two set of speakers, so say I connect an active subwoofer to one of said 2 couple of outputs... what happen next?, how does it work?

Do the sound gets splitted automatically going the middle and high sounds to the nearfield speakers and the bass sounds goes automatically to the subwoofer?

Is there a particular placement to the subwoofer with respect to the piano or sound source or as it happens while watching movies, a sub can be placed anywhere making its placement no differences in the end result?

Am I explaining myself?, thanks very much

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Most subs are doing the filtering themselves, you plug the interface output directly in the sub, and from there back to your monitors: the low end (typically under 85 or 100 Hz) will "stay" in your sub only.

Last edited by Luc Henrion (17-12-2019 12:00)

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Thanks Luc

My speakers are active so the sub is plugged directly from the audio interface and so are my near field monitors (I still got two extra line out in interface if needed

With this in mind, its 80/100 still the finest cutoff?

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

What brand and model ? (sub & monitors)

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

The monitors are two active Ayra RCF5 and the sub is an old active Monitor Audio Radius 360 100Watss

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Very interesting!

If your UR-44 driver recognizes multiple outputs, you can assign specific outputs to each microphone in Pianoteq Standard. Being one of the outputs for a microphone specially positioned for the subwoofer channel.

I am wrong?

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Im so sorry Leandro, Im not tecnichal person at all and I dont understand you enough to be able to supply you with a proper answer. Sorry mate

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Hum... contrary to most subs, yours has only an input, no output, filtered or not, so you have no choice but to use 2 outputs of your interface connected to your monitors, and 2 others to your sub. Regarding the cutoff frequencey, since you have none on the monitors, and since they are very capable to go as low as 50 Hz I'd suggest to set it as low as possible on your sub - under 80 Hz anyway (where the Ayra response start to decrease), so you don't create a peak in this region. The goal is always to get as flat as possible a frequency response, not to get an outrageous low end ! When it's done, just gently increase the volume of the sub (starting at zero!) until you reach a good balance.
Just my 2 cents of course

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Do you mean that ideally my sub should have had jack outputs and that I should have then connected the UR44 to the sub and this to the Ayras, getting not direct connection from the UR44 to the Ayras?

All this confuses me so much LOL

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Not "ideally", but most subs nowadays have this feature, yes. For example the RCF Ayra series sub (ideally suited to complement your Ayra 5):
https://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/produ...sub/291541

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Thanks

And do you think the resulta in Pianoteq would pay up the investment?

If my speakers handle 50 as you say, what's the lowest a bass piano sound would go?

I'm really nothing technically should you see that any of my questions make no sense whatsoever

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

I am very happy with my 8" powered Emotiva subwoofer as an element to my Pianoteq speakers.  In theory, you shouldn't 'hear' the sub, but you should know that it's present just by its addition of a 'feel' in deep bass, and even when striking keys with velocity on the keybed.  I set mine at about 50 Hz and under, increase the power until I can tell it's there, and then back it off.  It will add a presence and a richness to your setup.

- David

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

I don't think you should buy another sub: yours goes very low indeed, and certainly as low as subharmonics of any grand piano, even a Bösendorfer Imperial ! It's just a matter of convenience in the cabling and adjustment of levels

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Thanks guys

Have you managed (I looked but I dont seem to find ANY AT ALL) to see an example of an arrengement performed for a fellow Pianoteq user where we can REALLY hear the goodness of Pianoteq and could point me to?

I mean, one where the sound is nice enough and also were "resonances, harmonics...." are found?
Is so, I would not mind making several investments in order to reach such level but in all fair, I havent hear yet such an example (from a real person like us) to make me want to spent extra money in extra equipment

And yet one more question, nothing to do with Pianoteq:
Do you guys think that if I use my line outputs in my digital Kawai CA78 to connect them to my existing Sub, would this help in the overall sound of my own sound in my digital?

Thanks

Last edited by Jesús (20-12-2019 12:32)

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Hell All,

I agree with others who have posted the comment that one should not "hear" a subwoofer as a separate entity.  If your ears can localize where in the listening space the sub is placed, then its crossover frequency is set at too high a value, and its overall volume is probably set too loud.  This is a common mistake for new owners of subwoofers:  they want to "hear" their investment in action! This is entirely normal, and may be preferable during the honeymoon period with one's new subwoofer acquisition; after a certain period of time elapses, the user will become annoyed with the new subwoofer's sound in the system, and will probably sound unnatural, and too easy to be located by ear.

Remember, when you set a sub to start rolling off at, say 100Hz, you can still hear it at 200Hz (roughly note Ab below Middle C) and 400Hz (roughly A-flat above Middle C), when the cutoff filter is 6dB per octave.  Restated, a 100Hz low pass frequency allows 100Hz, but is -6dB@200Hz (about A-flat below Middle C) and only -12dB at 400Hz (about the first note A-flat above Middle C).

If you have smallish monitor speakers, it might be fine to feed your monitors the full frequency signal and just let their low frequencies roll off naturally; the sub's frequencies of the piano will be felt where the monitor speakers are simply too small to render much low frequency sound down there.

Personally, I own a pair of B&W Matrix 801 Series speakers and run them full range, and still use a subwoofer to augment their bass, setting the sub's low pass crossover at about 50Hz.  Ironically, I am able to feel the sub's lowest bass without being able to locate its position in my studio, yet the lowest bass "seems" to emanate from the studio monitors.

Remember this:  The lowest Note A on a standard piano has a fundamental frequency of 27.5 Hz; the octaves of note A above the lowest piano note are 55Hz, 110Hz, 220Hz, 440Hz, and so on.

Hope this helps; this is not the definitive reply to all matters pertaining to subwoofers.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Subwoofer, how does it work technically?

Well, there are (many) subs that have a steeper curve: 12 and even 24 dB/octave. That means that for a cutoff of 100 Hz e.g., at 400 Hz, it's already 24 or 48 dB lower...