N1X or NV10 with Pianoteq?

I have Kawai NV10 and Pianoteq 6 - I do enjoy it very much. NV10 action is quite sublime (I haven't played N1X - so can't compare the two). And, Pianoteq has quite literally the lowest latency of all VSTs I have tried (even using ASIO4ALL driver with RealTek on-board sound chip). It makes you feel connected to the instrument.

The sound via headphone is really good. I typically don't use headphones now-a-days. I use Line In of NV10 to get Pianoteq sound to play via NV10's speaker. In this arrangement, the sound leaves something to be desired. Perhaps - the NV10's speaker system is not a good match with Pianoteq's settings and I am not an expert with diffierent mic positions etc. to make it better.

Osho

Thanks all for your encouraging and interesting responses. I'm planning to try out both the N1X and NV10 next week, both as instruments in their own right and as controllers for Pianoteq.

I have to say that, in contrast to some, I've been very happy with the VPC1 with Pianoteq, but I'm anticipating that there's much room for improvement and that one of these two instruments may be the way forward.

I have wondered if either manufacturer is ever going to bring out just a 'piano controller' (to use Kawai's terminology) version, with a correspondingly reduced price tag. I'd guess it more likely from Kawai than Yamaha but who knows? And were it ever to happen you do have to wonder just how reduced the price tag may be. I suppose these actions are never going to be cheap to produce.

I'll probably post again once I've tried the two pianos with my impressions of them as controllers for Pianoteq. The trouble is though that past experience suggests that initial impressions are very misleading. I find I have to learn how to play a new instrument and that takes time, so that anything new always just feels wrong to begin with. But who knows, maybe these two are so good that they'll cut through.

Ian.

FWIW, it is highly unlikely that there will be a controller only version of N1X or NV10 - just not enough market for it. And, the added cost savings (especially if you don't get rid of the speaker system) are minimal.

Osho

How 'bout putting out just a little "elbow grease" if you want a real action.  Buy an old grand piano ... cracked to hell soundboard, rusted and broken strings or missing, vernier on the case looking really bad.  Yank the action out ... clean up the keys ... thrown the rest away ... put an optical sensor system in like the QRS PnoScan for example.  Set your 'new' controller on your keyboard stand and ... wa la!

The cost of totally new actions for branded acoustic pianos is outa sight.  All the excitement about hybrid pianos can be misleading.  Most often the "real" actions in those controllers are "thinned out" or cheapened versions of actual acoustic piano actions anyway.

Caution ... everyone is so sensitive about latency.  Try to use a real acoustic piano action to make a controller and you WILL experience latency ... have a ball - a square ball!

Respectfully,

Lanny

This is not true. There are only two 'real grand action' digital pianos - Kawai Novus NV10 and Yamaha AvantGrand series. Both are very faithful and close representation of their respective acoustic grand pianos - with the difference being actual felt hammers replaced with something else and sensors added to sense key velocities. The pivot length, the action, key, keytops - basically the entire mechanism is identical to the actual grand piano actions.

Osho

Hi,

I've compared a Yamaha N1X vs Kawai Novus NV-10S with Pianoteq.

The Winner is Yamaha N1X :

-> With N1X, they is a USB to host " Steinberg Driver", you can play Pianoteq directly in N1X speaker with multiple output, without the need of line in.
(N1X as a soundcard with speaker)
-> NV10 have no audio driver -> just midi - you have to use the noisy line IN of the Piano with often groundloop problem

-> With N1X you can simulate sympathetic resonance with silent key and Pianoteq. With NV10S impossible : because in NV10S you have no sensor under the key to detect the half travel of the key when the Damper begin to leave the strings.

-> N1X and NV10S have no Release velocity, but N1X have release Aftertouch midi (Protocole MIDI XP)
-> Pianoteq can read in midi XP the position and speed of the release key with N1X (to simulate Damper speed effect release)

With NV10S you can't have a release variable effect with Pianoteq.

Why ?

Because N1X behave in midi like a real Piano with sensor under the keys (Key release position and damper position) and sensor with hammer (when hammer hit the strings)
NV10S have only optical  Hammer sensor with wrong midi implementation for Release effect and Sympathetic resonance when you press silently the key.

So N1X is the perfect Midi XP Piano to use with Pianoteq and send the Pianoteq sound via USB (with audio drivers without audio cable)

I don't understand Kawai and their midi choice for a 10 000 Euros Piano. Even with Kawai internal sound, sympathetic resonance doesn't work with silent key (only with no silent keys...) And the fake Damper of NV10S, have no optical sensors....Even in CA99 it's work better...with release velocity and silent keys.

I'm a Kawai big fan of Millenium 3 action and sound (RX2, Shigeru, GL10....) , but the optical Hybrid midi sensors doesn't behave like a real piano (Hybrid and ATX)

So i will buy an N1X. (or no if Kawai find a soluce in a future firmware to fix the optical midi mapping for real sympathetic resonance)

Regards,

Olivier F.

Is this true ?  What exactly would they cheapen, piano actions are mostly pine wood. and with kawai, they have a carbon fiber middle.

You can't get cheaper than Pine.