Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Shoshk wrote:

Chris,  is the velocity curve so much better in Cantabile that it justifies the not inconsiderable cost?

I've been playing with the various grand pianos in Pianoteq and I have to say that it's hard to choose.  If I buy I'll probably get the Pro version, so that's 4 pianos, but still, I have to figure which 3 are least attractive.  It can change from day to day.  At this point, the only constant seems to be my preference for the Steinway B and my lack of preference for the Steinway D.  Some days I really like the Bluthner and others it seems a little too 'thick'.  I also like the Steingraeber a lot.  I'm playing a lot with the various presets.

Now that I have my studio monitors, I'm pretty happy with the internal voice of the p515 so I'm going to take my time...

Shosh

Yes, take your time Shosh, good plan.

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Shoshk wrote:

Greg,  yes, we are clearly looking for different sounds.  Which piano voice do you use?

Shosh

That was an extreme example, just to illustrate what I meant by "bright". (btw, I updated the link shortly after my initial post, with a better fidelity recording - the first one was terrible) A less exaggerated, but still bright and shimmering sound, would be the studio recording of Billy Joel's "New York State Of Mind" - I love that sound.

I'm usually using the CFX at the moment. I like the Bosendorfer too though. There are some other nice piano sounds as well in this unit.

Greg.

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

I think I'm close to a better Vel. Curve. I'm now using a straight line from 1, 1
to 113, 127. Note to Shosh: this is between the P515 and Pianoteq (via Cantabile's velocity filter) so that midi arrives at Ptq. already corrected rather than recieving adjustments post Ptq.

Feels really nice to play in conjunction with the P515's default (normal)  touch setting. However, I'd be interested to know what others think of it and also whether anyone wishes to try the same line (1, 1 to 113, 127) within Pianoteq instead (don't know if it will work as I've not tried it that way).

Warmest regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (21-08-2019 00:07)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Hi Chris,

I find that I'm using the Hard1 setting on the p515 for touch in order to get a better response for pp-mf.  Likewise, I'm experimenting with a curve in Pianoteq that gives me better control in that range.  Your curve is a bit too, I believe the term is 'fast', for me.  I'll post my curve when I get it tweaked to my satisfaction.

Regards,
Shosh

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Shoshk wrote:

Hi Chris,

I find that I'm using the Hard1 setting on the p515 for touch in order to get a better response for pp-mf.  Likewise, I'm experimenting with a curve in Pianoteq that gives me better control in that range.  Your curve is a bit too, I believe the term is 'fast', for me.  I'll post my curve when I get it tweaked to my satisfaction.

Regards,
Shosh

Hi Shosh,

Got up today and didn't like the straight line 'curve' I posted last night. I may even invest in a 'midi solutions' velocity curve changer. It has 40 velocity curve presets and the option for a custom curve. Not cheap though - £99 in the UK.

Looking forward to trying your curve Shosh,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (21-08-2019 16:51)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Chris,

I'm currently also using a little excel worksheet so I can compare various curves.  I still really don't totally understand what I'm doing, but the visual aid helps me to more easily see the differences between different curves.

Are you considering the external box because of the selection of presets?

Regards,
Shosh

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Shoshk wrote:

Chris,

Are you considering the external box because of the selection of presets?

Regards,

Shosh

In a word, yes!

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Guys, check out this software: VelPro.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Guys, check out this software: VelPro.

How easy is it to use?? Do you have it??

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Your own demo is easily just a click away: OSX 10.8+; Windows 8, 10.

Have a blessed day,

Amen

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

tly001 wrote:

I prefer yamaha CLP685

I'm a Kawai MP11SE man. So, the Yamaha P515 is of no interest to me. But, now that you mention it, I'll take one of those CLP695GPs.

Kawai MP11SE / Pianoteq Pro Studio Bundle v7.5.2 (includes every Pianoteq instrument - 21 currently)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Guys, check out this software: VelPro.

This is a simple and great piece of software.  It provided the answer for my want of having a fixed programmable volume curve to use for both Pianoteq and my Native Instruments software.  This also meant that I no longer had to monkey with the volume curve within Pianoteq to match my keyboard, freeing it to vary with different instrument presets so that it could be used for creative purposes, rather than to 'correct' my keyboard (which is now done by VelPro, which starts with the computer, and just stays in the background.  Adrien Anselme, who created it, I believe, has been quite good to deal with when I had some questions.

- David

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

dklein wrote:
Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Guys, check out this software: VelPro.

This is a simple and great piece of software.  It provided the answer for my want of having a fixed programmable volume curve to use for both Pianoteq and my Native Instruments software.  This also meant that I no longer had to monkey with the volume curve within Pianoteq to match my keyboard, freeing it to vary with different instrument presets so that it could be used for creative purposes, rather than to 'correct' my keyboard (which is now done by VelPro, which starts with the computer, and just stays in the background.  Adrien Anselme, who created it, I believe, has been quite good to deal with when I had some questions.

Thank you David, very helpful,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

sigasa wrote:

post Ptq.

Remappings of MIDI velocity values have to be done pre Ptq's soundgeneration. Whether the remapping is done in external hardware, external software or internally in Ptq, the resulting sound will be same.

One thing to consider is the latency and "jitter"of those MIDI-events. Every data processing needs time.

Is Ptq's internal velocity-mapper always ON, even when mapping is identical (x=y)? Then we can't avoid this latency in the first place.

Further MIDI latency (and jitter?) is added by external devices, like MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter.

MIDI Routing and remapping with something like Cantabile or VelPro costs time and inaccuracy too.

Maybe those added latencies and jitters are neglectable, but as long it is not measured, it is safe to use just Ptq's internal velocity mapper.

Last edited by groovy (22-08-2019 08:57)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

groovy wrote:
sigasa wrote:

post Ptq.

Remappings of MIDI velocity values have to be done pre Ptq's soundgeneration. Whether the remapping is done in external hardware, external software or internally in Ptq, the resulting sound will be same.

One thing to consider is the latency and "jitter"of those MIDI-events. Every data processing needs time.

Is Ptq's internal velocity-mapper always ON, even when mapping is identical (x=y)? Then we can't avoid this latency in the first place.

Further MIDI latency (and jitter?) is added by external devices, like MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter.

MIDI Routing and remapping with something like Cantabile or VelPro costs time and inaccuracy too.

Maybe those added latencies and jitters are neglectable, but as long it is not measured, it is safe to use just Ptq's internal velocity mapper.

Thank you groovy, I didn't realise this regarding velocities. It stands to reason though! I understand now, after what you just wrote in your last post above, that altering the Ptq curve in the velocity pane must of course alter the resulting midi arriving at the Ptq output. How silly of me not to realise this. It also makes me realise the importance of mapping a curve for Pianoteq users based on the Ptq pane.

Thank you groovy, I'll see what I can do.

Warmest regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (24-08-2019 17:27)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Velocity = [0, 17, 33, 46, 56, 65, 73, 83, 96, 111, 127; 1, 2, 8, 22, 42, 65, 88, 107, 120, 126, 127]

There you go guys. See if you like it and what needs improvement. Copy and paste into Pianoteq Velocity Curve pane

(Select Touch 'Soft 1' on your P515)

Warmest regards,

Chris

Thanks to groovy for the inspiration!

Last edited by sigasa (24-08-2019 23:48)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Would be interesting to see, how your curve compares to the suggestion of Pianoteq's calibration assistant (when used together with the unknown Soft-1-curve of the P515).

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

groovy wrote:

Would be interesting to see, how your curve compares to the suggestion of Pianoteq's calibration assistant (when used together with the unknown Soft-1-curve of the P515).

Yes groovy.

I'd very much like to know what other P515 users think of the curve and how it might be improved,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

I downloaded VelPro1 last night. I found it difficult to use as the are no coordinates when placing points on the velocity curve. I'm sure it's ok for some, but not for me. I went back to using a simple line within Cantabile's velocity filter. However, as groovy pointed out, the result of the curve will be identical if you create it within Pianoteq's Velocity Curve pane.

I shall post my latest attempt, which I love, shortly. It is to be used with the P515's 'Hard1' Touch Setting,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Velocity = [0, 13, 94, 127; 1, 2, 127, 127]

Immediately above ^ to be copy and pasted into Pianoteq's Velocity Curve pane

Below, for use in Cantabile's Velocity filter

Velocity = [0, 13, 94, 127; 2, 2, 127, 127]

Use P515's 'Hard1'Touch Setting.

Don't really need 1st and last points in either case, but it just looks neater.

Hope someone will test and advise,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (26-08-2019 21:22)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Here's the curve I'm currently working with.  I've set the touch to 'Hard1.'

Velocity = [0, 20, 39, 56, 64, 73, 93, 105, 116; 0, 18, 36, 54, 64, 74, 96, 110, 127]

Regards,
Shosh

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Shoshk wrote:

Here's the curve I'm currently working with.  I've set the touch to 'Hard1.'

Velocity = [0, 20, 39, 56, 64, 73, 93, 105, 116; 0, 18, 36, 54, 64, 74, 96, 110, 127]

Regards,
Shosh

I'll check out your curve shortly.

Here's one I created this afternoon for use with 'Soft2' on P515

Velocity = [0, 39, 75, 111, 127; 2, 2, 64, 127, 127]

Last edited by sigasa (28-08-2019 14:43)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Velocity = [0, 11, 109, 127; 2, 2, 127, 127]

Lid 0.71 Bluthner Concert BA Preset

Note for note volumes levelled

Medium (default) Touch in P515

This is my latest curve, groovy. It seems pretty smooth throughout the register and velocity range. I'm going to look at your velocity curve tomorrow.

Warmest regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (29-08-2019 22:14)

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Some seem to shoot curves. 

Have you all foregone completely now, the Pianoteq forum section set aside for velocity curves specifically?

I’ve a link to it: ”Keyboard velocity curves”!

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Yesterday I played the new Yamaha P515

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Some seem to shoot curves. 

Have you all foregone completely now, the Pianoteq forum section set aside for velocity curves specifically?

I’ve a link to it: ”Keyboard velocity curves”!

Hi Amen,

In answer to your question, not at all. In fact, I posted the above curves in the forum's velocity curve thread when I posted the above!

Warmest regards,

Chris