Instrument Packs - My Pro shows 2 packs, shouldn't I have 4?

Yes that could be. How should I go about getting the additional 2 before purchasing the other packs? I sent an email, but I might be missing something in the account area.

Hmm that would be crappy of them -- I sure hope that's not the case - $500 is $500. Being early adopters shouldn't mean we don't get a couple extra licenses when they offer them to new customers for the same package we purchased and supported with upgrades and reviews.

Don't get me wrong, they don't "owe" us them. But not offering them to current Pro license holders is not the right move. If that's the case I'll just wait to buy any packs at all, and hope they offer a proper upgrade path for Pro users to get all the current packs +1 year for a discounted price like they started with Studio.

Not long ago I upgraded to Standard, it would have been nice to be offered the third instrument pack but ultimately Modartt is running a business and it is swings and roundabouts. I had been enjoying Stage for a good while.

Consider that If you wanted the C. Bechstein "Digital Grand" a few months ago the only option for that was the Kontakt sample product (with some fixed microphone positions) which would set you back 249 Euros and gobble tens of GBs of SSD drive space too.
Currently you can get the Pianoteq variant of that product in the sale for Pianoteq for 34 Euros.

Indeed. No doubt you enjoyed much of them at the time. 

Actually I currently have all the Pianoteq products I want from them without going all the way to Studio or Pro. I appreciate that many others will make use of the full pack though.
I may pick up some more modern pianos when they create them!

Same story here with Standard edition.
My first registration was with V2 and there isn't any sort of Grand-père clause.

I wrote to Modartt and their reply indicated that if/when I upgrade to Pro I get more (1 or 2, not sure as it was a bit ambiguous).
It would be "Nice" if they made it retroactive, but this isn't something I will resent them for if they don't.

Totally get it PSongs, it's clearly deflating, that it impacts you that way.

I think it's something we all eventually put behind us though.

(Like I mention, I'm really happy someone else can get what I got for less).

For the most part, I'm a customer who only bothers with "specials" for products which are not in the same quality class - or needs requirement category.

I want a special on my ground coffee, vehicle - regular things - but I'm happy to pay full price for an extraordinary grand piano.

I'm not angling for the best deals in that case, I'm in all seriousness, angling for the best piano.

I don't begrudge paying for that workmanship in full, as it means the company has the adequate resources to keep making great instruments. And I'd be without a piano for years waiting for the day they put on a special

But - it's also good to have customers who value 'the deal' and discounts - it's just that if you ARE one of those customer types, then surely you must recognise, that in a world where we take advantage of occasional specials, there are times when WE must miss out.

Doesn't make you feel better, I know. (I feel for you) But I do know that I feel better (in life overall) if I lose the feeling of losing, or being attacked by some rando decision. I could pull all my hair out at the supermarket any day, knowing I'm being chiselled like no tomorrow on every other item. One day, a 5% yellow tag - the next 60% off. Bummer, I just bought a dozen at full price 2 days ago.

It's too ruinous to keep track of life that way. As a human, to another human, don't feel slighted, feel happy for the new peeps.

Seriously, I hate bringing up 40yrs buying music gear blah - but in that time - have I been hit in the teeth by ridiculous price gouging and missing sales?

You bet.

Do I still care about that time some large company killed off the special I traveled miles to get just minutes before I entered the building and the sales guys laughed and told me "sux2BU".

I don't hate that company and I still bought what I needed when it was needed. If I need 'that sound' or whatever, I don't wait 4 years for 'the special'

Not saying everyone should be happy happy - but altruism is a good thing IMO.

My bills go up and up, yet Pianoteq is coming down. Shouldn't that be good news? That you might get more for less in future when you are deciding on a new instrument?

The prices could be going UP - and that would be considered normal

I don't think it marks a change in policy to a point where customers don't matter. The reverse, is shows they're offering more for less.

Some of us always by dint of our timeline will be before, or after.

Whenever something like that happens (again worth noting the types who run all sorts of arbitrary specials every other day) - always, some of us will look at what we paid and think "Oh, I missed that one!".

Of course it's rational to have an emotional or annoyed set of feelings around that - but give it a breather - do the English cup of tea - set a spell - at some point later you realise it's been an attempt at better prices, more customers, happier future customers. Yeah? I can't hold ill feelings for that myself.

Now, I hate a lot of other seriously bogus 'deals' I can't ever win on - like phones - I mean, it's hellish, has been for years - something incredibly disingenuous about the entire telecommunication system, from phones to web these days. Nobody gets a "good deal" anymore in that world. I'm so glad Pianoteq is not in that circle of hell.

Cheer up PSongs It may seem goofy - but I'd be happy if they halved prices - I wouldn't feel like I lost.. I would feel like I, and existing customers like me, helped get things to the future!

You are a pioneer - a customer who early, saw value, said "Yes" - don't turn that into a "Steam DLC grfeedy Dev" level thing. It's a good product, company and customer base - and I'm really happy to feel that Modartt are looking to make things more affordable, instead of less

I think it may be analogous to automotive "model years".
e.g. current standard equipment on 2019 models that may have been optional on 2018 models would not become available as a free retrofit on the 2018 model that was bought last year - even though it may still be under warranty.
However much owners might APPRECIATE a free retrofit, unless it is a safety recall it wouldn't be free.

MANY of the interfaces in automobiles remain unchanged for many years, i.e. bolt hole size and spacing between components, sub assemblies and options.

Enthusiasts are able to EASILY update/upgrade earlier model year vehicles with later model year parts and options.
The manufacturers' business models are aimed against it, but it is done.

Not a perfect analogy, I agree.

Mind you, that sentiment is pretty confined to vendors who are highly appreciated for their ongoing merits - probably worth stating that too Maybe it also comes with age - at some point, you take over control of the feeling of being mistreated by companies or abstract things like 'deals'. I'll probably venture into that later..

Love the scarcity point! but it fails logic (ignoratio elenchi - arguing an irrelevant point) to me in this case though.

There is a scarce 'material' in question here, although virtual, the extant pianos (each a man made item - not an unlimited resource like copy/pasting endless 1s and 0s - not to mention small file size equating to some value proposition, also going against the prospects of unlimited code however nebulous).

Can't help but think of Modartt as being a good actor, who's made this 1 decision (or overlooked that it might be an upset for some customers, given they don't engage in lots of marketing or changes to price) which some users feel bad about - and that's probably the nutshell version without going into there being maybe 2 actual logical lines leading to it which could cause another wall of text ;-0 - will try not to.. must resist.. urge.

Other marketplaces/vendors are always engaging in changing the deal, flash specials, daily deals, weekly sales, fire hose style. 

In those markets, nobody is upset when the deal changes - it's normal (or has been hyper-normalised).

Thinking of too many other vendors these days, their approach is "different price every week" strategy makes me have "no feelings" about them - and the way they run so many sales, all with different add-ons and offerings (built in obsolescence and 'upgrade plans' even), nobody wins all the time (like here mostly we do) - and everybody loses at some point because, what they bought for a bargain for $99.99 one day, may be on sale for $19.99 tomorrow - given as a freebie (all arbitrary stuff, including entire 'normal price' structure importantly).

It's probably more 'the norm' now online. When someone complains "I missed out" the forum says in unison "Meh, you fool, why didn't you just wait for the next Tuesday mega-uber-extreme-fire-hose-in-yer-face special?". In other words, that type of marketing removes the "good stable parent" attachment we might have psychologically, and replaces it with "irresponsible drunken maniac", no decision they make is too outrageous - but we all expect them to be radically different next week, we expect to lose until we pounce at the price point we personally deem to be "good value" - win, and sometimes win big.. but, of course in the casino, the house wins all the time.

At Modartt, because perhaps they have been such good proverbial 'stable nice guy parent-like' figures to customers at all times, to many of us with generous entry point and rational upgrade steps.. well, maybe that's why it smarts users more, when perceived to have done one particular thing like all those other Babylonian wretches on the casino strip

Often, those who are the very most conscientious to do the best of all things for all, are IMO very incorrectly held to some higher standards, than they hold others, who are demonstrably not worthy of such esteem.

Along the casino strip, the software there also gouges endlessly with upgrade path bottle-necks and add-on obsolescence - so that point is also worth re-examining IMO.

But I love the discussion - happy to toss things around - right in my areas of nerdy interests - but still not convinced something like genuine malice was played out - although, of course still love the idea that the users in question might be grandfathered in - but that's just my own spidey senses regarding scarcity calculations (I personally think there are enough instruments, and upcoming ones, to allow the provision of the 2 in question to that fairly small group of users)..

All interesting to toss around - I believe we think alike about many things here, and even if not so, I love reading the heart-felt and considered words of others thinking about things in some detail - makes for better world IMO, so thank you to so many members who post to this forum Always enjoy dropping in to see if there's something of value, or like Diogenes, something interesting at least to add.

Pianoteq is a slightly different software business model, however Moddart are only going to hurt themselves in this case with the way they're doing it.

Software is a different beast than hardware you can't make the comparison its not relevant. Same with "deals" -- they can give Pro away for $10 and no one would have a valid complaint, but saying "Your Pro doesn't include what their Pro does"... there's a valid complaint.

Any other software out there that offers content depending on what license you own, should be (and almost always is regardless of the industry) consistent to all owners. Most of us pay for every update/upgrade, we're on the latest and greatest "Pro" -- we own the same software license.
And the following example should clarify why what Moddart are proposing is a bad move:

Imagine your DAW, lets say Cubase just as an example (as all DAWS have content upgrades and purchases). Cubase 10 Pro currently has Halion and Grooveagent lite (crippled versions) included.

Tomorrow Steinberg announces Cubase 10 now includes the full complete versions of Halion and Grooveagent, but only for new buyers. All previous purchasers of Cubase 10 Pro, will have to buy the full versions separately. You can continuously pay for upgrades, and you still won't be getting the full versions unless you pay individually for them, or buy a brand new Pro license. Forever. No one would stand for it, and its the most viable "comparison" one could make, and could be made to any software in any industry for the most part.

I'm easy going, as I mentioned I still love Pteq and will continue to upgrade and I believe in the product, and I think a good portion of us are mature enough to see it for what it is and not spoil the whole pot. However there's no doubt this leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and will affect others in a similar way.

I believe my mind has been changed.

Early in this discussion I sided somewhat toward a "We bought it, we own it" or
"The deal we got was acceptable to us at the time we took it, newcomers get a better deal, but we took a different deal at a different time."
i.e. the automotive frozen configuration model year.

I have changed toward  "New customers seem to matter more than existing customers and that is unfair."

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Now I am pondering where that leaves me and my plans.
The 30% discount on instruments is attractive, but some of the more attractive grands are V6 only and I am still on V5.8
I would LIKE to upgrade to Pro and that upgrade would jump me to V6,.

Buying a few instruments NOW would mean that I would have to put off an upgrade to Pro
If the upgrade to Pro would jump me to 4 bundled instruments, i.e. treat me as well as a ""new" customer I might go for that.
It would still leave a sour taste, ...Hmmmm as I said "pondering".

I think I'll go and practice for a while.