Topic: how to tweak for fuller sound?

Hi all,

I really enjoy my PianoTeq Stage, but I can't help to notice that when I compare the piano sounds of my Nord Piano to the PianoTeq sounds, the PianoTeq sounds don't sound as full as the Nord sounds. It's kind of a compressed, nasal (narrower?) sound if I hopefully describe it correctly.

Does anyone have some general suggestions on how to tweak settings for a fuller sound? I've been trying many things already and following some suggestions I found, but I can't seem to get it right. Any tips are welcome.

Thanks!

Best,
Jan Willem

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

Heya Jan,

the good news is, it's bound to be something trivial, albeit boring to figure out maybe

If it's just EQ, there are nice tools for that in Pianoteq (check out the presets, sure to be some to give you more oomph) - but I suspect a driver scuffle from what you mention.

For longer than I'd like to admit, I was flummoxed by the OS always trying to font-load the incorrect audio driver for the job. Now, I make a rule of disabling other audio devices, to allow the right ones to load up when I plug in and run Pianoteq, DAWs or other VSTs.

Your Options/devices panel has a button to "Show this device's panel" - maybe head in there and un-check any errant audio devices which may be lit up, and make sure only the right one is lit (solves a lot of pop/crackle issues often a main cause).

Optionally, in the OS (depending on your OS, right-click the volume icon in system tray or via control panel for example) and disable any audio devices from "playback" and "recording" devices shown, except for the correct ones (esp. the case if using an external audio device, until that's plugged in, those devices may not be there yet).

Also, if you know what you're doing and are happy to have more than one driver alive, experiment with un-checking "allow this device to take exclusive control" in the drivers you want running, instead of just disabling. But, I find less ongoing twiddling-fest if I just disable system fluff when loading into audio work mode.

I use an external audio device, so now when I plug that in, the right audio devices are loaded without the guff interfering or already being loaded first - and any other lesser system ones are not getting side-loaded by force or stealth by the OS.

If it's not that, maybe something to do with your pinao keyboard forcing some "transpose" or "EQ" extraneous other data over your USB to USB MIDI cable? (I use old style MIDI plugs to USB to PC to avoid - but that's just my pref). To fix, maybe there's some kind of "Local MIDI" OFF in the Nord settings, or a button like it.

Maybe you do want your Nord to be the audio (speakers plugged into keys?) but - there should still be a proper chanel between audio driver, keyboard MIDI and output chain.. to me, seems like something might be a bit tangled off the top of my head (I don't use that config - so not so up on doing that the best way).

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure lots of other tricks are contained in old threads going back before my time - plenty of way smarter folks will have some other info I'm sure. I'd try search terms like:

"USB MIDI" "audio driver problem" (substitute problem/issue/glitch etc.)

If no luck after this, def. post back with more info about how things are connected up, OS etc.. maybe it's a more interesting edge case thing.. hoping it's simple of course.

[EDIT to add link]

Here's a current thread, someone using their keyboard internals for audio:

https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=6645

Cheers.

Last edited by Qexl (03-07-2019 05:35)
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

If Pianoteq sounds on your setup are dissimilar to examples on the Pianoteq Listen by instrument page (https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_by_instrument) an issue exists on your end.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

Yes, poifect Amen, that's probably the best way to tell if your audio is janked and definitely the first thing to try.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

These are some great suggestions, I'm definitely going to try these out. Thank you so much!!

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

jwtulp wrote:

These are some great suggestions, I'm definitely going to try these out. Thank you so much!!

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but you may want to try setting the two small diaphragm mics,the DPA 4011's, in an xy pattern. You may be very sensitive to slight aliasing and comb filtering, and the XY setup is designed to reduce those problems by reducing the distance between the mic heads while still capturing a fairly wide sound. More info and some fxp's here:

https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=6649

Be sure to listen to everything first, to be sure that the sound is better to your ears. It may not be what you want. In any case, you will doubtless want to make adjustments to the fxps, moving the mics a bit, adjusting the dynamics and volume, etc. Let me know if this works out, please.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (03-07-2019 18:58)

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

thank you, I'll have a look into that!

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

New Phil Best YT video, may be of some interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4SEgi5pADA&t=0s

Last edited by Key Fumbler (03-07-2019 16:09)

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

what a timing!! Thanks!!

Key Fumbler wrote:

New Phil Best YT video, may be of some interest:
[youtube]j4SEgi5pADA[/youtube]

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

jwtulp wrote:

Hi all,
I really enjoy my PianoTeq Stage, but I can't help to notice that when I compare the piano sounds of my Nord Piano to the PianoTeq sounds, the PianoTeq sounds don't sound as full as the Nord sounds. It's kind of a compressed, nasal (narrower?) sound if I hopefully describe it correctly.
Does anyone have some general suggestions on how to tweak settings for a fuller sound? I've been trying many things already and following some suggestions I found, but I can't seem to get it right. Any tips are welcome.

Try setting :
Steinway D
[OUTPUT] [ACTION] [Damper position 1/10.0] [Damper duration: 1.20]
I saw this damper setting in Synthogy Ivory.

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

DonSmith wrote:

Try setting :
Steinway D
[OUTPUT] [ACTION] [Damper position 1/10.0] [Damper duration: 1.20]
I saw this damper setting in Synthogy Ivory.

I have the Stage edition, and I don't seem to have that setting. Thanks for the suggestion though!

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

jwtulp wrote:
DonSmith wrote:

Try setting :
Steinway D
[OUTPUT] [ACTION] [Damper position 1/10.0] [Damper duration: 1.20]
I saw this damper setting in Synthogy Ivory.

I have the Stage edition, and I don't seem to have that setting. Thanks for the suggestion though!

Edit *Incorrect info removed*

Even Stage has a wealth of adjustments. Standard takes it to another level with the microphone positioning though.

Last edited by Key Fumbler (03-07-2019 21:47)

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

Key Fumbler:

Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting the Phil Best video! It has reminded me that one of the greatest benefits of the many, many instruments available with PianoTeq is the opportunity to spend time with each one, to discover what is special about each one. Lately, I have been just selecting presets that produce sonorities I am most familiar with rather than discovering new sonorities. Now I think I am going to invest in the Petrof set so that I will have even more sonorities to discover!

Cheers!

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

Key Fumbler wrote:

Yeah you do, it is under "action"> slider "damper Position"> Slider "Damper Duration"

Even Stage has a wealth of adjustments. Standard takes it to another level with the microphone positioning though.

euh.... I must really be overlooking that option. I clearly have Pianoteq 6 STAGE, as that's shown at the bottom of my screen. When I go to Output -> Action, I have 3 sliders, one for Mute, one for Key release noise and one for Sustain pedal noise. But I don't see Damper position and Damper duration. I cannot scroll the Action panel for any possible hidden sliders...

Is it a different Action panel you mean?

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

Yes, you're sadly correct there jwtulp, Stage does only have those 3 controls there.

But, even without those damper controls, you can still do a lot of things.

Probably to re-wind a bit - take a look at the velocity curve and load some presets like fast or slow curves, to see if they're better for your keybed and optionally after that, maybe go through the calibration routine (small button below velocity box). That can have a marked impact on how muffled or over-bright things sound.

Once that's to you liking - try altering some effects:

FX2 to EQ3 with the preset "Presence" or "Grand Piano enhance" and FX3 to Compressor with preset "Grand Piano medium" - these should give you some low-mid punch and some hightened bass/mids/trebles to evaluate - and then alter those settings to tame things as you like. (drag dots in the EQ up/down/left/right and hear what they do, for example. I'm an EQ enthusiast, so always encourage anyone to think of it as much more than just some last minute tone thing.

Also, dynamics slider on the front of the box is really powerful - if you're used to modern music playing, you might like the dynamics slider down at something like 32, or if you want a full range (and a workout for your hands) like a concert piano bump it up closer to 60 or so to see if you like it. For me, higher is the way I like it - all that headroom is kind of exciting, going from very quiet to loud forte requiring actual effort on the keys.

No matter what piano and preset you start with, you can make it quiet or brash, boomy or squat, light or sluggish to peak. I can never stop "just a little more" of this, that and the other thing. Always surprises with just a few effects and subtle tweaks. I'd just finish to say, just have fun breaking things a while and you'll discover what you like best in no time

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

DonSmith wrote:
jwtulp wrote:

Hi all,
I really enjoy my PianoTeq Stage, ...

Try setting :
Steinway D
[OUTPUT] [ACTION] [Damper position 1/10.0] [Damper duration: 1.20]
I saw this damper setting in Synthogy Ivory.

Well, at least in my Pianoteq STAGE, the option for changing damper position and damper duration is not accessible.

Last edited by Viridis (03-07-2019 21:33)
Have a nice day & happy playin'

Yamaha CP33 -- Scarlett 2i2 -- Yamaha HS7 / Sennheiser HD650 -- PTQ 8 Pro [Linux] -- Some instruments

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

jwtulp wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:

Yeah you do, it is under "action"> slider "damper Position"> Slider "Damper Duration"

Even Stage has a wealth of adjustments. Standard takes it to another level with the microphone positioning though.

euh.... I must really be overlooking that option. I clearly have Pianoteq 6 STAGE, as that's shown at the bottom of my screen. When I go to Output -> Action, I have 3 sliders, one for Mute, one for Key release noise and one for Sustain pedal noise. But I don't see Damper position and Damper duration. I cannot scroll the Action panel for any possible hidden sliders...

Is it a different Action panel you mean?

Oops sorry, I'm forgetting the differences already, sent you on a wild goose chase!
Taking the additions in Standard for granted...

Certainly you can drastically change the sound by adding EQ in the FX section and also using the main EQ. Also getting a velocity curve that suits your hands and keyboard. Later making custom velocity curves per patch to tune the pianos to taste.

Also changing the reverb settings drastically changes the sound. There is so much you can do in Stage already.
With the dynamics reduced you will get a loud sound more easily.

Don't forget to play through the various presets, these pertain to different microphone positions (which you do not get a visual representation of in Stage), EQ and other adjustments.
If you want to see where the microphones are positioned in those presets download the Standard or Pro demo - which may tempt you anyway!

Re: how to tweak for fuller sound?

dapperdave wrote:

Key Fumbler:

Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting the Phil Best video! It has reminded me that one of the greatest benefits of the many, many instruments available with PianoTeq is the opportunity to spend time with each one, to discover what is special about each one. Lately, I have been just selecting presets that produce sonorities I am most familiar with rather than discovering new sonorities. Now I think I am going to invest in the Petrof set so that I will have even more sonorities to discover!

Cheers!

Blimey, it's only a video link, glad you are pleased! 
I just got the Petrof and the Bechstein yesterday in the sale. Both impressive models which I cannot do any form of justice to personally, but given this is simply noughts and ones I can still appreciate them without doing a proper pianist out of the opportunity .