Topic by M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ

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Topic: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

Hello,

I'm trying to get the best acoustic grand piano sound out of Pianoteq 6 in monophonic mode that I can, for times when I need to use a single speaker. At the moment I'm using Pianoteq Stage, but I'd be willing to upgrade to Standard if that were likely to help with getting a better mono piano sound. I'm going for a piano sound that's suitable for live use in jazz ensembles.

Does anyone have any favourite Pianoteq 6 presets and/or settings that work well in monophonic mode? Or any advice more generally about how to get the best out of Pianoteq in mono?

One thing I'm not sure about is whether monophonic mode just sums the left and right outputs to mono, or whether it sends the output from just one of the 'microphones'. I've seen conflicting answers to this question on the internet. If it's the former, then it might be worth me upgrading to Pianoteq Standard so that I can create some presets that use just one microphone. On that topic, does anyone know how I can find out what the microphone settings for the different presets are, given that I only have Pianoteq Stage, which does offer the option of altering (or viewing) the microphone settings?

Many thanks!

Reply by say yes

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

You can download Standard trial version for your needs. Besides, monophonic mode is recorded from one single microphone. It's 100% mono capatible.

Reply by QuinnTow

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

Does it sound good in mono?

Reply by groovy

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ wrote:

One thing I'm not sure about is whether monophonic mode just sums the left and right outputs to mono, or whether it sends the output from just one of the 'microphones'. I've seen conflicting answers to this question on the internet. If it's the former, then it might be worth me upgrading to Pianoteq Standard so that I can create some presets that use just one microphone. On that topic, does anyone know how I can find out what the microphone settings for the different presets are, given that I only have Pianoteq Stage, which does offer the option of altering (or viewing) the microphone settings?

Maybe Line out (mono) = (L+R)/2 ? is interesting for you.

Reply by M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

say yes wrote:

You can download Standard trial version for your needs. Besides, monophonic mode is recorded from one single microphone. It's 100% mono capatible.

Ok, thanks, I'll download the trial version of Pianoteq Standard. Thanks for clearing up my confusion about how monophonic mode works. To be honest I was kind of hoping that monophonic mode was just stereo mode summed to mono, because that would explain why Pianoteq sounds so much worse to me in mono compared to stereo. Does anyone have any presets that they find work well in mono?

Reply by M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

QuinnTow wrote:

Does it sound good in mono?

No, I haven't been able to get it to sound very good in mono yet, but hopefully with some more tweaking I will.

Reply by M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

Ok, I was being a bit harsh about how good Pianoteq Stage 6 sounds in mono; with some more tweaking and using decent studio monitors, I'm starting to get a decent sound out of it. I'm still interested in any advice anyone has on this topic, though.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ wrote:

One thing I'm not sure about is whether monophonic mode just sums the left and right outputs to mono, or whether it sends the output from just one of the 'microphones'. I've seen conflicting answers to this question on the internet.

When selecting Monophonic output, you get the sound from one single mic, see https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...89#p946089 for a detailed explanation.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by aWc

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

Philippe Guillaume wrote:
M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ wrote:

One thing I'm not sure about is whether monophonic mode just sums the left and right outputs to mono, or whether it sends the output from just one of the 'microphones'. I've seen conflicting answers to this question on the internet.

When selecting Monophonic output, you get the sound from one single mic, see https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...89#p946089 for a detailed explanation.

In this day and age, I cannot see how anybody would be satisfied with a mono sound. I recently bought a  stereo system for $15 at a bazaar for my wife to use on her computer...and it sounds really good! Why settle for mono?

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

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Reply by aandrmusic

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

aWc wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:
M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ wrote:

One thing I'm not sure about is whether monophonic mode just sums the left and right outputs to mono, or whether it sends the output from just one of the 'microphones'. I've seen conflicting answers to this question on the internet.

When selecting Monophonic output, you get the sound from one single mic, see https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...89#p946089 for a detailed explanation.

In this day and age, I cannot see how anybody would be satisfied with a mono sound. I recently bought a  stereo system for $15 at a bazaar for my wife to use on her computer...and it sounds really good! Why settle for mono?

Well, ONE reason may be that they regard a piano as a "Monophonic" instrument.

I think it is weird and unnatural to hear piano music coming from two sources 10 ft (~3m) apart.

Reply by M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

aWc wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:
M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ wrote:

One thing I'm not sure about is whether monophonic mode just sums the left and right outputs to mono, or whether it sends the output from just one of the 'microphones'. I've seen conflicting answers to this question on the internet.

When selecting Monophonic output, you get the sound from one single mic, see https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...89#p946089 for a detailed explanation.

In this day and age, I cannot see how anybody would be satisfied with a mono sound. I recently bought a  stereo system for $15 at a bazaar for my wife to use on her computer...and it sounds really good! Why settle for mono?

It's not always possible or practical to run keyboards in stereo when playing live. The venue's PA may be mono and/or only provide a single foldback monitor for the keyboardist; for smaller gigs, setting up two speakers may not be feasible or worth the effort; or the nature of the room itself might cause phase interference when the sound is run in stereo.

By the way, I'm still on the lookout for any tips on how to get a good mono sound out of Pianoteq; I did a show with it yesterday and there's clearly room for improvement.

Reply by say yes

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

M62PmRvZVvJ&NTZ wrote:
say yes wrote:

You can download Standard trial version for your needs. Besides, monophonic mode is recorded from one single microphone. It's 100% mono capatible.

Ok, thanks, I'll download the trial version of Pianoteq Standard. Thanks for clearing up my confusion about how monophonic mode works. To be honest I was kind of hoping that monophonic mode was just stereo mode summed to mono, because that would explain why Pianoteq sounds so much worse to me in mono compared to stereo. Does anyone have any presets that they find work well in mono?

Do you know 'Correlation' ? It's a parameter shows the difference between L channel & R channel. If two channels are the same, correlation is 1. Or if the signal from two channels are 180° inverted, correlation is -1. Generally, if L & R channels are totally different, for most time it will be around 0. Because of phase cancellaion, if you sum two different channels, you'll definitelly lose something. The lower correlation is, the more you'll lose. so it's always trade off between stereo width and mono compatability. One common phenomenon is that you'll notice there are some keys sounds unpleasant while other keys are OK. That is because when play these unpleasant keys, the correlation is very near to -1. If you perform to audience in mono, summing channels is not a wise solution. For the best result you should use one single microphone in pianoteq.

Reply by LTECpiano

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

say yes ... "Because of phase cancellaion, if you sum two different channels, you'll definitelly lose something."

ref:  "different channels", you might be interested in something from the 1970's which was first presented by David Hafler.  He came up with a simple but effective way to capture the difference of two channels and present that difference in a third speaker/channel.  Just "Google" ... David Hafler Effect.   or,    The Hafler Hookup

I have had fun experimenting with that simple circuit.  Just make sure if you try it that your amplifier(s) can have a common ground.  I find that a number of the digital amplifiers do not ... don't "fry" your amplifier.

Lanny

Last edited by LTECpiano (08-06-2019 12:38)

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Reply by aWc

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

aandrmusic wrote:
aWc wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:

When selecting Monophonic output, you get the sound from one single mic, see https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...89#p946089 for a detailed explanation.

In this day and age, I cannot see how anybody would be satisfied with a mono sound. I recently bought a  stereo system for $15 at a bazaar for my wife to use on her computer...and it sounds really good! Why settle for mono?

Well, ONE reason may be that they regard a piano as a "Monophonic" instrument.

I think it is weird and unnatural to hear piano music coming from two sources 10 ft (~3m) apart.

If feasible, I would put the speakers much closer than 10 feet apart indeed. However, speakers with good stereo imaging make the sound seem to come from several directions...including the space in the middle. I wouldn't think of acoustic instruments as mono or stereo...we just hear with two ears, therefore with a sense a spatial placement. The piano is particular in that its a very large instrument with a left to right placement of the strings (except for the oblique bass strings in most grands), so stereo reproduction seems even more important for piano sound than, lets say, a flute.

Last edited by aWc (08-06-2019 19:11)
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Reply by aandrmusic

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

LTECpiano wrote:

say yes ... "Because of phase cancellaion, if you sum two different channels, you'll definitelly lose something."

ref:  "different channels", you might be interested in something from the 1970's which was first presented by David Hafler.  He came up with a simple but effective way to capture the difference of two channels and present that difference in a third speaker/channel.  Just "Google" ... David Hafler Effect.   or,    The Hafler Hookup

I have had fun experimenting with that simple circuit.  Just make sure if you try it that your amplifier(s) can have a common ground.  I find that a number of the digital amplifiers do not ... don't "fry" your amplifier.

Lanny

Another "from the 70s" effect was the bi-amp.
One way to produce a wide sound stage was to low pass filter to an amp driving the bass notes, place the speaker for that on the left.
Hi pass filter to an amp feeding the right speaker.
Large floor speakers of the right height (e.g. the Sony speakers I have here) can support a keyboard such as my KX-88 with knee space between them and produce the illusion that the bass notes come from the left end of the "instrument"(combination of keyboard, SGU, amps, etc) while the treble comes from the right with the mid range somewhere in between.

Despite knowing that the bass notes don't REALLY come from the left of a wooden piano - the sense is that they do<grin>

Reply by MacKey

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

Hi,

I run Pianoteq STAGE in a mono setup just using the "standard" stereo piano and only (!!!) the left channel into the PA. This gives the best result to me.

The mono mode/piano in pianoteq sounds weird (but why?).

Using only one channel like the left channel (or right channel - it's up to your taste) sounds (at least to me) the best in a mono setup.

Last edited by MacKey (13-06-2019 20:46)

Reply by Gilles

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

MacKey wrote:

Hi,

I run Pianoteq STAGE in a mono setup just using the "standard" stereo piano and only (!!!) the left channel into the PA. This gives the best result to me.

The mono mode/piano in pianoteq sounds weird (but why?).

Using only one channel like the left channel (or right channel - it's up to your taste) sounds (at least to me) the best in a mono setup.

Routing the left channel of a stereo output or the left or right channel of the mono output should sound exactly the same as Philippe's explanation linked higher up in this thread says. But if you mix both channels of the mono output to a mono PA system then you actually add them and you may get overload...

Last edited by Gilles (13-06-2019 21:37)

Reply by MacKey

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Re: How to get the best out of Pianoteq 6 in mono

Gilles wrote:
MacKey wrote:

Hi,

I run Pianoteq STAGE in a mono setup just using the "standard" stereo piano and only (!!!) the left channel into the PA. This gives the best result to me.

The mono mode/piano in pianoteq sounds weird (but why?).

Using only one channel like the left channel (or right channel - it's up to your taste) sounds (at least to me) the best in a mono setup.

Routing the left channel of a stereo output or the left or right channel of the mono output should sound exactly the same as Philippe's explanation linked higher up in this thread says. But if you mix both channels of the mono output to a mono PA system then you actually add them and you may get overload...

The mono mode/piano doesn't sound the same like the stereo mode/piano with only one channel (left or right). The mono piano has not the clearity, expression and definition in its sound like using only one channel of the stereo piano. This is the result of my personal experience. But like all it's finally a matter of taste.

Last edited by MacKey (13-06-2019 21:54)