Topic: Getting Started Modeling

I am trying to get started with creating new instruments in Pianoteq Pro 6. My interest is in creating gamelan-type percussion. I have read the rather sparse documentation on note edit and spectrum profile in the user manual and I am wondering whether there is more detailed or more advanced documentation available.
As an experiment, starting with the Marimba Original, I tired changing the Direct Sound Duration. I dragged it up to the max (5.00) throughout the instrument's range and nothing happened—the audible duration of the notes did not change at all. Either something is wrong or I don't understand what "Direct Sound Duration" is supposed to mean.

Re: Getting Started Modeling

dbdoty wrote:

I am trying to get started with creating new instruments in Pianoteq Pro 6. My interest is in creating gamelan-type percussion. I have read the rather sparse documentation on note edit and spectrum profile in the user manual and I am wondering whether there is more detailed or more advanced documentation available.
As an experiment, starting with the Marimba Original, I tired changing the Direct Sound Duration. I dragged it up to the max (5.00) throughout the instrument's range and nothing happened—the audible duration of the notes did not change at all. Either something is wrong or I don't understand what "Direct Sound Duration" is supposed to mean.

Direct sound duration makes mainly sense for pianos, where the presence of several strings per note induces two stages in the sound: a first stage with a fast decay, a second stage with a slow decay. The first stage is called direct sound, and its duration is controlled by the Direct sound duration parameter. Moreover, even on a piano, those two parts are clearly present only if the strings of the note are closely tuned (small unison width).

Re: Getting Started Modeling

Philippe Guillaume wrote:
dbdoty wrote:

I am trying to get started with creating new instruments in Pianoteq Pro 6. My interest is in creating gamelan-type percussion. I have read the rather sparse documentation on note edit and spectrum profile in the user manual and I am wondering whether there is more detailed or more advanced documentation available.
As an experiment, starting with the Marimba Original, I tired changing the Direct Sound Duration. I dragged it up to the max (5.00) throughout the instrument's range and nothing happened—the audible duration of the notes did not change at all. Either something is wrong or I don't understand what "Direct Sound Duration" is supposed to mean.

Direct sound duration makes mainly sense for pianos, where the presence of several strings per note induces two stages in the sound: a first stage with a fast decay, a second stage with a slow decay. The first stage is called direct sound, and its duration is controlled by the Direct sound duration parameter. Moreover, even on a piano, those two parts are clearly present only if the strings of the note are closely tuned (small unison width).

Well, if that is so, what control would I use to transform a relatively short, "dry" sound, such as a marimba, to a sound with a longer decay, such as a struck metal bar. More generally, to repeat my initial question, where do I get information on how to create new sounds totally from scratch, rather than modifying existing sounds? I upgraded to Pro with the understanding that it would give me this capability, but so far I am not seeing how to do it. Since Modarrt sells instrument packs such as vibes and glockenspiel, it is obviously possible to make these sounds; I need to learn how.

Re: Getting Started Modeling

dbdoty wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:
dbdoty wrote:

I am trying to get started with creating new instruments in Pianoteq Pro 6. My interest is in creating gamelan-type percussion. I have read the rather sparse documentation on note edit and spectrum profile in the user manual and I am wondering whether there is more detailed or more advanced documentation available.
As an experiment, starting with the Marimba Original, I tired changing the Direct Sound Duration. I dragged it up to the max (5.00) throughout the instrument's range and nothing happened—the audible duration of the notes did not change at all. Either something is wrong or I don't understand what "Direct Sound Duration" is supposed to mean.

Direct sound duration makes mainly sense for pianos, where the presence of several strings per note induces two stages in the sound: a first stage with a fast decay, a second stage with a slow decay. The first stage is called direct sound, and its duration is controlled by the Direct sound duration parameter. Moreover, even on a piano, those two parts are clearly present only if the strings of the note are closely tuned (small unison width).

Well, if that is so, what control would I use to transform a relatively short, "dry" sound, such as a marimba, to a sound with a longer decay, such as a struck metal bar. More generally, to repeat my initial question, where do I get information on how to create new sounds totally from scratch, rather than modifying existing sounds? I upgraded to Pro with the understanding that it would give me this capability, but so far I am not seeing how to do it. Since Modarrt sells instrument packs such as vibes and glockenspiel, it is obviously possible to make these sounds; I need to learn how.

For the marimba, you can easily get a longer sustain by increasing the soundboard impedance in the Design panel (try also increasing the Cutoff or reducing the Q factor).

Regarding starting from scratch, this is no feasible in Pianoteq at the user level. This would be the aim of a general purpose synthesizer which Pianoteq is not. The conception of Pianoteq is to provide to the user means to transform existing instruments, either globally (Pianoteq Standard) or Note per Note (Pianoteq Pro). The creation of each instrument itself is done by Modartt and requires many months of work.

BTW, I just noticed it was you first post above, so welcome to the forum dbdoty!

Re: Getting Started Modeling

Dbdoty, here’s a little video in which the marimba is being taken places by adjusting several of its parameters. To add to what Philippe already suggested: Q factor is a very effective parameter, when its value is lowered, to give the marimba a more metallic and longer sustained sound. (Or, when raised, to tighten its sound to a very sec percussive thing, as is demonstrated halfway through the video.)

I wasn’t working towards anything specific here, just fiddling around with the parameters, quite randomly, to explore/illustrate a few possibilities. Maybe you can pick up one or two ideas from this.

_

Re: Getting Started Modeling

Excellent demonstration video Piet, thank you!

And shame on me because I wrote "The creation of each instrument itself is done by Modartt and requires many months of work", forgetting to mention the essential participation of the beta team in that creation.

Re: Getting Started Modeling

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Excellent demonstration video Piet, thank you!

And shame on me because I wrote "The creation of each instrument itself is done by Modartt and requires many months of work", forgetting to mention the essential participation of the beta team in that creation.

Thanks for suggestions above. Is it possible to retune the frequencies of individual partials? E.g., A struck bar as a series of inharmonic partials that are very different from the harmonic partials of a string. I know that Modartt has produced instruments with inharmonic partials, e.g., chimes, church bells.

Re: Getting Started Modeling

dbdoty wrote:

Thanks for suggestions above. Is it possible to retune the frequencies of individual partials? E.g., A struck bar as a series of inharmonic partials that are very different from the harmonic partials of a string. I know that Modartt has produced instruments with inharmonic partials, e.g., chimes, church bells.

There is no direct way to retune the partials individually (but you can control their volume in the Spectrum profile Note Edit). There is only an indirect way to control the partials frequency, via the inharmonicity, which depends on the String length parameter (Design panel) that can be controlled note per note in Pro. But this is only a small control: by how much the partials series departs from the harmonic series, according to the physics of strings.

Re: Getting Started Modeling

OK, I'm making some progress in the direction I wish to go. Is there some parameter that I can set to control the rate of damping when I release a key?  On the lower notes in particular, I get a long ring after I release a key, resulting in a muddy texture, which is not something I want.

Re: Getting Started Modeling

dbdoty wrote:

OK, I'm making some progress in the direction I wish to go. Is there some parameter that I can set to control the rate of damping when I release a key?  On the lower notes in particular, I get a long ring after I release a key, resulting in a muddy texture, which is not something I want.

There are several parameters you can play with:
- the most natural one is the Damping duration in the Action panel,
- Duplex scale and Sympathetic resonances, which let you hear the resonances of the free parts of the strings (they remain even if you reduce the Damping duration),
- Last damper in the Action panel: if you set it to the maximum, all notes will have dampers, reducing the number of free strings parts (only the Duplex parts will remain).