Topic: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

Hi there- We just purchased a Presonus audio box and Pianoteq 5 in hopes of getting some better piano sounds for the Alesis.  I have tried various Global settings on the Alexis and checked everything on the laptop, box and the various preset piano sounds are not coming though cleanly.  We can play the demo and the piano will sound great, and then play the Alesis and it will sound like there is some "flanging" and synthesizer sounds coming through that are definitely unwanted. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thx Kristy

Last edited by gnwkmd (10-08-2015 01:26)

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

This looks like an unwanted MIDI loop or 2 simultaneous MIDI channels, make sure Pianoteq is only responding on one MIDI channel

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

Flanging can also happen if you are mixing the internal Alesis sound with a pianoteq instrument. Differences in tuning and/or spectrum can sound as flanging or introduce phase cancellations. If you have standard or pro, the pianoteq instrument can be adjusted to the Alesis tuning note by note to reduce or eliminate the unwanted effect.

Last edited by Gilles (11-08-2015 16:07)

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

I have changed the pianoteq midi to channel one to match the Alexis.  We also have tried the pianoteq with a Casio keyboard and the unwanted effects are still there.  I am at a loss of what to check.  Neither Casio or Alexis are set up as instrument options in pianoteq.  We attempted to set up a new instrument, but not sure if we need to do something else? 

Thanks

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

We would need a bit more information about your setup. Are you using the stand-alone version of pianoteq, or as a plugin in other software? What OS are you using?

For the stand-alone version, Pianoteq has an option "Listen to all MIDI inputs" in the "devices" setup window which is enabled by default. (File -> Audio/MIDI setup -> Devices) Try turning it off, and make sure only the keyboard you want to play (alesis, casio, ...) is checked.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

We are using Windows 7 and a standalone version of Pianoteq Stage.
  As you suggested  I have tried de-selecting the midi options  under the "listen to all MIDI inputs" and I get no sounds.  I am only sending midi on channel 1, and I can't find the tab  to select my keyboard ( I get the same flanging effect with two different keyboards, an Alesis and Casio). Where do I go to select either of these keyboards as an option?
Thanks

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

That's weird... you don't see your keyboard in the same little box as in "listen to all MIDI inputs" when it's plugged in? It should be there, and that's the one you should activate (obviously).

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

You won't see your keyboard (Alesis QS8.1 has no USB/MIDI connection), you'll only see your MIDI interface, and that's the one you have to choose.
Which one is it?

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

Luc Henrion wrote:

You won't see your keyboard (Alesis QS8.1 has no USB/MIDI connection), you'll only see your MIDI interface, and that's the one you have to choose.
Which one is it?

I'm pretty sure it is Presonus AudioBox USB as mentioned in the topmost message.

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

Oh, sorry... i had completely forgotten it was a midi interface and not a USB connection

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

Right, you have to look at the Presonus AudioBox in the list then... and check there is only one instance?

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

I appreciate everyone trying to help us troubleshoot our issue.  I've captured our technical set-up to see if anyone has any suggestions:

Laptop - Toshiba Satellite with Windows 7 Home premium; 64-bit Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.6 Ghz processor and 4 GB Ram
the internal sound card is disabled.

Alesis QS8.1 has MIDI out to Presonus Audiobox MIDI In.   USB from Laptop to Presonus Audiobox USB which is the only sound card showing on the laptop when connected.    Output from Audiobox to Roland KC550 Amp via 1/4" L/R. 

We have pianoteq Stage v5.3.0.  Here are the Option tab settings:

Devices Tab:
Active MIDI Inputs:  both Listen to all MIDI inputs and MIDI in are selected.  There is no difference in the quality with changing these selections.

Audio Device type:  ASIO
Device:  AudioBox ASIO Driver
Active output channels:  Out 1 and 2

Sample Rate:  44100 HZ
Audio Buffer Size:  256 samples

we've changed all of these settings and there is no reduction in the extra MIDI flanging/synthesizer sounds we are getting. 


MIDI tab:
We are using the Minimalist MIDI mapping with Standard MIDI dialect chosen. 

Performance Tab:
We are not seeing any Audio load issues and have both Multicore rendering and CPU overload detection checked. 

We have polyphony set at 256.

Instruments Tab:
We hear the extra flanging/synthesizer sound on all instruments chosen.  We will play the demo and hear the "clean" sound, then play notes on the Alesis and there is extra flanging sounds. 

General Tab:

We have not changed any of the settings on this tab. 

We have gone on Alesis forums and checked our general MIDI settings and hear no change in the MIDI sound.  There is no MIDI thru and we have set the general MIDI to on and off, and have changed the keyboard out settings also.  No difference in the extra flanging sounds.


We have re-installed Pianoteq on this laptop and also tried installing it on a DELL laptop and there has been no change in the MIDI flanging. 

Any suggestions on things to check would be greatly appreciated!  thanks

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

Added: you may not read everything I wrote, because I did not got exactly what you describe from the first glance, pay attention to what I write about MIDI monitor and the very last two sentences.

Since you still could not solve your problem my strongest advice is to find a person in your area who can come and fix it all. I clearly understand that different people have a very different areas of experience and if somebody lack some technical approach to stuff it's totally ok. If you still want to try to solve it by yourself the best way of thinking is to see a chain of events which are hardware, software, etc. and you have a mistake somewhere in the chain. Try to separate the links and test them to debug the chain. Is your master keyboard ok? Download another virtual synth, some demo, try to play it. Download some MIDI file and load it to Pianoteq to play by itself internally. Does it sound right when you play with a mouse on a Pianoteq virtual keyboard? Play audio demos from Pianoteq website. Play just some piano music from YouTube, does it play well? Choose another type of drivers, not ASIO, try WDM, or whatever you have in your hardware list, etc. Try extremely large/small audio buffer settings. Finally you'll be able to narrow your search and locate a problematic spot. Maybe you have a broken audio interface or some other hardware failure which could only be replaced or repaired.

Since you mentioned 'flanging' effect it just means that somehow audio plays the same twice (or more) with a short delay. Maybe your keyboard double send the MIDI signal, or maybe it appears later in audio domain. It should be possible to locate 'where' it actually happens. (!) Ok, to check if your keyboard transmit MIDI right just go to Pianoteq > Options > Midi page then play a single note on your keyboard and check in the MIDI monitor window that a single 'note on' event received with velocity information also and then when you release the key the 'note off' event also received - it is a normal behaviour. If it is ok then your keyboard is ok, look further in the audio domain.

Also note that there is no such thing as 'MIDI sound' - MIDI is not a sound, it is just a controller data that contains the information about simple events - what key is pressed and velocity and then that a key is released. Based on this data software and hardware then actually generate the 'sound'.

You know, it's easily possible that it is a window or some bookshelf in your room resonates and generates this effect. It's extremely hard to guess from where I am.

...Pianoteq > Options > Midi tab - in the very bottom 'Notes Channel' switch from 'Any' to 1.

...Check the Alesis manual (google it) and find how to reset everything to factory settings.

Last edited by AKM (10-09-2015 01:48)

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

This probably won't help, but when I plugged in my Casio via USB it just worked.  I didn't have to do anything.  (Linux Mint 17.2)

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

gnwkmd wrote:

Hi there- We just purchased a Presonus audio box and Pianoteq 5 in hopes of getting some better piano sounds for the Alesis.  I have tried various Global settings on the Alexis and checked everything on the laptop, box and the various preset piano sounds are not coming though cleanly.  We can play the demo and the piano will sound great, and then play the Alesis and it will sound like there is some "flanging" and synthesizer sounds coming through that are definitely unwanted.

Three more things you could look into:

Have you made absolutely sure you disabled the audio output from the Alesis when you use it with Pianoteq? If not, unpluck all audio output cables from the keyboard so only the MIDI out remains. You should also be able to test this by playing a short sequence on the keyboard and then afterwards just replaying the midi in Pianoteq - if it sounds as clean as the demo, i.e. the effect is gone during replay, then you have your cause...

Do you have anything plugged into the MIDI IN or MIDI THRU connectors on the keyboard? If so, unplug these, too, to make sure the keyboard is not being fed back its own MIDI signal creating a MIDI loop of some sort.

Failing that, consider uploading the MIDI sequence you recorded (to the "Other files" section of this forum) so others can take a look at what might be the problem with the data sent by your keyboard. (You might also go to the Options>MIDI screen in Pianoteq, hit a single key once on your keyboard and post a screenshot of what appears in the MIDI monitoring window to give us a first idea of whether there are any irregularities there.)

Hope this helps,
Dan

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

I am very new to Pianoteq so don`t mind me too much . I wanted to ask if the split keyboard system could interfere with running Pianoteq .One Midi cable plugged in but a split signal .

Re: Alesis QS8.1 and unwanted extra midi effects

I'm not able to understand what you mean, but recommend anyone to play around with the Pianoteq demo installs, and experiment with your setup.

The key splitting tools inside are pretty powerful.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors