I am preparing a MIDI file to be played in a recording studio on Yamaha C1 grand piano equipped with the Disklavier reproducing system. Is there a velocity curve that can be used in Pianoteq that simulates or at least approximates the velocity response of the Disklavier? I would like to prepare the MIDI file using Pianoteq to gauge the loudness of notes played, so that the rendition by the Disklavier will sound good.
My idea of the Pianoteq VELOCITY and the preset (curve) you use in it is; they only pertain to input from the keyboard you use for input into Pianoteq, opposed to input into anything else that generates piano tones such as a Yamaha Disklavier system. If your situation were reversed, from a Disklavier to Pianoteq via a file recorded on the Disklavier itself, you'd expect results similar to any you may get from the MIDI files available on the e-piano competition website, when you load any of them into Pianoteq for your playback. Maybe yours will yield some just as impressive, the other way around!
Yamaha Disklavier and Modartt Pianoteq seem ideally matched MIDI wise. Yamaha uses its high resolution Yamaha XP MIDI file format which Modartt Pianoteq also utilizes. Yamaha uses it on a Disklavier while Modartt uses it in Pianoteq. Both appear to raise standards of available MIDI file formats. Perhaps one has been an intended complement to the other, piano sound wise!
Since Yamaha Disklavier translates well into Pianoteq, you assume, naturally, the opposite is true —when you go from Pianoteq.fxp to Yamaha XP. You have then a referenced commonality.
Because the Yamaha C1 is other than a virtual acoustic piano and has its own specific condition (tuning, voicing, dynamics, room enclosure, Etc.), I suggest you take, surely, your laptop and a copy of Pianoteq with you to the studio!
I see now that I cannot edit my posts any further, otherwise I'd have just added this text to my previous post, as I'd been doing with others before.
My idea of the Pianoteq VELOCITY and the preset (curve) you use in it is; they only pertain to input from the keyboard you use for input into Pianoteq, opposed to input into anything else that generates piano tones such as a Yamaha Disklavier system.
In the setup I use, the velocity curve in Pianoteq affects input from any source, be that a keyboard or an external MIDI editing/sequencing software playing a MIDI file. The way that works is, the MIDI software (I use either Cakewalk or Anvil Studio) outputs to a MIDI port in the LoopMIDI software utility, and Pianoteq takes input from that same MIDI port. So, Pianoteq doesn't "know" that the MIDI messages are coming from a software sequencer and not from a keyboard; it applies the currently-defined velocity curve to incoming MIDI note messages, regardless of their source.
I have recorded a MIDI sequence from an external keyboard and edited it in MIDI sequencing software. When I play it back to Pianoteq using the default linear velocity curve (a straight line from lower left to upper right of the graph), the velocities sound as I want them to. However, I'm afraid that the Disklavier may respond differently to some or all of the velocities, playing some notes too loudly or too softly. I would like to know if there is a velocity curve I can use in Pianoteq that will cause a MIDI file with velocity values edited to sound good using that curve to sound good when played on the Disklavier system. I do not know if the default linear velocity curve in Pianoteq corresponds to the velocity response of the Disklavier, or if some other velocity curve is a better fit to the response of the Disklavier. The question is, which velocity curve, the default linear velocity curve, or one of the velocity curves in the library of velocity curves for various MIDI controllers, is the best fit to the Disklavier? Absent an answer to that question, is it a reasonable assumption that the velocity curve for Yamaha's high end stage piano would be a good fit to the velocity response of the Disklavier?
If your situation were reversed, from a Disklavier to Pianoteq via a file recorded on the Disklavier itself, you'd expect results similar to any you may get from the MIDI files available on the e-piano competition website, when you load any of them into Pianoteq for your playback. Maybe yours will yield some just as impressive, the other way around!
Thank you for that interesting idea. If a MIDI file recorded on the Disklavier sounds correct as to the velocity response in Pianoteq, then the velocity curve in use in Pianoteq is the one by which to judge any MIDI intended to be played on the Disklavier. So the question becomes, which velocity curve is best for playing MIDI files recorded on the Disklavier? Is it the default linear velocity curve, or some other velocity curve?
Because the Yamaha C1 is other than a virtual acoustic piano and has its own specific condition (tuning, voicing, dynamics, room enclosure, Etc.), I suggest you take, surely, your laptop and a copy of Pianoteq with you to the studio!
Can't do that. The recording studio is on the west coast, and I'm on the east coast. The MIDI file will be e-mailed to them. The recording will be done with close mics, minimizing the effect of room acoustics.
It seems a question I can answer myself by listening to MIDI files recorded on the Disklavier in the e-competition, in Pianoteq, and deciding which velocity curve is best. Your suggestion is very helpful in that regard.
Many arguments exist about Pianoteq VELOCITY uses.
Some save curves rightly or wrongly to the presets they make and post to FXP Corner. Although, if I at my keyboard (Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95) were to perform from some of the included curves attached to any of the presets, my resultant experience would vary from the result of another poster to FXP Corner, should he use a keyboard other than mine!
I feel I was thrown off a bit by your usage of the word guage, and assumed erroneously you need the Disklavier present, if you are going to hear the notes played (from it).
Anyway, I am glad I've been helpful!
You have a blessed day.
Hi Steven,
Hopefully there's no harm in emailing a few variants of the MIDI.
MIDI files being so small, you could hopefully rely on someone in studio to audition and choose the one which works.
Knowing nothing of the project - but engineer/producer might love having this decision - if you trust them with it.
The same MIDI can sound pronouncedly different, so A/B-ing between curves you could narrow it down to say 3 variants which you consider close to soft, passive, aggressive - and who knows, it might work in studio by editing the output of each together to underline dynamics of the piece etc.
Best of luck!
Qexl, any competent engineer applies sometime considerable compression and expansion to make interesting the dynamics in a mix. His application of either might become considered his forte!
The web site of the recording studio features a sound recording of a MIDI file rendered on their Yamaha grand piano equipped with the Disklavier system. I asked them to send me the MIDI file, so I can play it in Pianoteq and adjust settings to match the dynamic response in the recording. Once I've done that, I can prepare my MIDI file using Pianoteq as the sound engine, so I can expect the recording on the Disklavier to have the same dynamic expression as the MIDI file rendered in Pianoteq. Thanks to those who provided useful suggestions.
Sounds like you've hit on the perfect solution - great idea.
@Amen, yes undoubtedly - but I read the other thread where Steven mentioned wanting to avoid them having to manually edit MIDI their end.
Steven, maybe you will want to let the readers to this thread know if you decide to use a nonlinear velocity adjustment, just as soon as you get the studio MIDI file and compare it along with any file from the e-piano competition against the Disklavier studio audio. And, perhaps settle for once and for all whether or not MIDI generated on the Disklavier is the same, dynamically, as it generated in Pianoteq!
Sounds like you've hit on the perfect solution - great idea.
@Amen, yes undoubtedly - but I read the other thread where Steven mentioned wanting to avoid them having to manually edit MIDI their end.
Personally, I've read no such indication of Steven's in another thread. Have you a more specific reference?
@Amen, you yourself answered in this thread also They're closely related in nature.
Piano-e-competition performances thread.
Was referencing this among other things..
The two systems would have to be compared to see if they agree or differ. If they differ, the velocity values in the MIDI file would have to be modified, either by editing the numbers or by implementation of a velocity curve in Pianoteq, to ensure that velocity value x generates a note at mezzo-forte, the loudness at which the note way played, and not mezzo-piano, forte, or some other dynamic level
By emailing 3 or so MIDI files to the studio, each with a varying velocity, it may have solved any problem at their end, meaning they wouldn't need to edit manually - time consuming etc.
I'm sure Steven will be fine - seems like his last post is a good solution - but hey what's the harm in putting that MIDI into an editor, select all, lower velocity by 5 or 10% save it out - same for 5 or 10% higher velo - send the 3 (or more?). That way, they can instantly load the softer or harder one.. which might work better over on the West Coast. (before any production comes into it). Tiny files, might just knock it on the head, and out of the park, no need for anyone to pull hair.
Cheers.