Love to see full MPE on the pro version of Pianoteq, no reason why the designer cannot incorporate this.
Would also like to see an optional ADSR Envelope function added to the pro version to allow soundscape abilities. Probably to add an ADSR would restrict polyphony when active (set to 'off' as default) but still it would sound amazing for film soundtracks.
Envelopes aren't particularly CPU intensive, but the main problem is that the physical model doesn't exactly work like that.
Envelopes aren't particularly CPU intensive, but the main problem is that the physical model doesn't exactly work like that.
Good news indeed if envelopes are not CPU intensive :-) many DSP programs have issue with retriggering ENV which cause popping sounds on synth/modeled instruments with low polyphony. The more polyphony the better.
Would you mind to elaborate on the main problem please?
It's simple, physical models don't work like your regular subtractive synthesizer with filters, envelopes and the like.
It's simple, physical models don't work like your regular subtractive synthesizer with filters, envelopes and the like.
Sorry man, I don’t understand what you mean unless you can be a bit more specific but I hope the design team look into it
PianoTeq works by modelling hammer striking string as in a real piano, so in that sense an arbitrary envelope doesn't make sense. It's not so much that it's an essential feature of physical modelling that it doesn't have envelopes, but generally the evolution of amplitude and timbre over time is a function of the physical model rather than something imposed by an envelope.
However, it would be possible to model a different kind of excitation source, perhaps more like a bow, or otherwise not necessarily imitative of reality, which could very well use envelopes as one finds in other synthesisers (subtractive, physical modelling for example Chromaphone and others, or otherwise) and/or MPE control. Indeed, it's quite possible (and potentially interesting) to have a physical modelling synthesiser with envelopes (or MPE) controlling arbitrary physical properties of the model, or to have hybrid forms of synthesiser which use physical modelling as part of the process along with subtractive or other elements.
I don't know how likely it is that we see any of this in the context of PianoTeq, though. In reality, it's likely that the developers see this as somewhat outside the remit / design philosophy of PianoTeq. I would love to have a synthesiser with the quality of modelling that PianoTeq has along with more scope to explore some of these kinds of realms, but it may be necessary to look elsewhere. This is the kind of thing I daydream about making myself (actually, there are lots of those kinds of things).
You can create unlimited synth-like presets (at least with Pro, using a combo of settings) which is quite exceptional. Firstly because it is stemming from some semblance of reality (real strings and strikes/bowing - the very things synths were trying to emulate in early dev). Secondly because, you can erase the "strike" to imperceptible levels and create anything you want with the tail ends of the sounds, including elements relating to polyphony.
Here are some settings you can experiment with to Frankenstein a nice piano into something for a cinematic bowed sound (requires Pro):
1.
Energy. Slider to the right. This is the most obvious "bowed" trick. Takes away initial impact and we get a 'envelope-like' swell instead.
2.
Inertia. Also slide right. Goes hand in hand with 1. How deep is thi swell? [sic]
3.
Direct sound duration. Longer or shorter natural progression of any string. Make a shorter or longer overall note(s).
4.
Lower hammer noise. Takes away some impact sound.
5.
Strike point. Slide left (softens strike's effect - like hitting a guitar string near half way, rather than near the bridge - it's just similarly rounder and softer).
6.
Compressor. "Squashed" preset maybe.. kills more impact and lifts swell. Tweak.
7.
Other things to UP include:
Sympathetic resonance,
Impedance,
String length,
Duplex scale (or Aliquot strings in Bluethner),
Also tie in things like Cutoff and Q factor for higher zinginess heaven.
In the end, I find Pianoteq is a fantastic synthesiser replacement (when it suites). I LOVE being able to create tracks where a listener may think they are hearing pure synthesis but I am arriving at a finished element because of the playability and understanding of the controls (IRL piano rules apply - plus decades of midi equipment marry quite well).
It is possible to push even the boundaries we have in mind regarding "what is a synthesiser in modern music".
Hope this helps others find some depth which I know is built in. Best o'luck!
[edited to add]:
Low velocity - work with low velocities - you don't need to bow at 127 - use a "Fast Keyboard" velocity curve (tweak) if it helps you play with more delicate or controlled low velocity strikes.
Actually, I think everything Qexl mentions is in the Standard version; Pro AFAIK is mostly to do with access to more detailed edits for individual notes.
It is indeed quite possible to tweak PianoTeq into interesting spaces outside imitation of pianos - sometimes synth like, sometimes like some unknown acoustic instrument. As so often, limitations can themselves be creatively useful; there is also a risk if too many features are added that the interface loses clarity etc.
Still, I'd love to see options for some kind of envelope-based excitation source, as well as being able to control things like strike point via MPE.
Another fruitful possibility is to generate samples using pianoteq for building pad sounds etc.
Yeah, there are so many tweakable aspects but sometimes, my mind goes to well-worn DAW tricks to consider concepts to improvements - many of which could probably not occur perfectly inside the engine as it stands.
But so often, our musings on the forum do indeed translate into directly audible or visible improvements, if not exactly along the lines, very close.
Knowing virtually nothing about the creation of the engine, sometimes I do wonder if it could somehow occupy a wrapper which includes flows for these kinds of trad tools (envelopes, gates) to tunnel through where called.
It's a shame Tassman has been abandoned for years... that was a modular synthesiser with an emphasis on physical modelling; so one could patch together arbitrary hybrids with elements like a string feeding into a resonator, but with some gate or something in-between if that was desired...
https://physicalaudio.co.uk/PA3 looks interesting for mac... just noticed there's a free demo...
Thank you xinaes, Tassman and PA3 look very interesting. Nice to see tools which are no longer supported but are still sometimes kept available with all the caveats. The Derailer demos using Roli Seaboard is, IMO, quite 'the thing'. I'd be so onto that if younger.
Exciting days really, to see physical music tool modelling approaching an era where a reset of the engine can be achieved between notes without (any/much) disruption to the continual modeled output. Early days but these non-obvious advances will impact all other tools for sure.
I definitely see a gap here, for feeding or tapping readings from elements inside the model to outside params on env. gates etc.
Always enjoy learning about digital tools - to me, they are each simply an abstraction layer in between our concepts and output. We still have to deal with physically inputting our ideas - so maybe younger people will see this area as good reason for mind-machine interfaces on top of everything. Just dream it - and the machine releases it automatically to the cloud. In my early days we used to joke "This console should have the #1 hit button!". Life is stranger than fiction in so many ways and I suppose we need to be careful what we wish for - cue spooky soundscape created on a Roli!
So for me it's certainly a fascinating space - and I can see more and more friction creating some justified heat in the gap between preceding synthesis and recent modelling advances. I suppose I could say watch, or listen to this space
Thank you Qexl and Xinaes, some really excellent thoughts and ideas!
Simple, All you need to do is hit the keys really fast with increasing loudness like a cymbal roll ;D
I made a quick little prototype "adsr particle generator" using l2ork that rapidly hits notes with increasing velocity. Works pretty good when combined with the methods suggested by Quexl and a little delay.
Makes me think Pianoteq folks could pretty easily put out an instrument with an adsr controlled mallet bounce and a soft mallet to do this without having to model stick-slip forces of a bow. The cimbalom tzigane mallet bounce is basically a slow version of this.
That's how chromaphone does it.