Studio monitor buyer's guide for piano playback

Adam monitors are great for piano... I’ll be picking up the A7X as I like the front controls and front ported

I think the best suggestion is to listen to speakers before making a purchase, since people's perception of the nature of sound is subjective, and speakers are the most variable component in the output side of recorded sound. Specifications are useful, but there's no way to discern from them how a particular speaker will sound to your ears.

With that said, quality powered studio monitors can be expected to be quite effective for use with PianoteQ, because generally speaking, monitors are designed to accurately represent sound over a wide dynamic range and frequency. That is important for reproducing the sound of a piano, and is where speakers like you've been using fall short.

The T20s for example don't even have technical specifications to give you any idea of their intended performance, but since they operate from an external PSU with a rating of around 22VA, they probably would claim about 8W RMS per channel. That amount of available power in a small speaker simply cannot provide undistorted sound loud enough to sound like a piano in full flight.

For your question about "music" not having the same distortion problem, I guess you're making a comparison with recorded music such as CD or other digital media files? That comes down to dynamic range, put simply the difference between the softest and loudest sounds being reproduced. Sound on, say, a CD is heavily compressed, so its highest level is not actually much higher than its average output, otherwise people wold be turning the volume of their radio/stereo/media player up and down all the time to hear the quiet bits then to not be deafened by the loud bits. Or a lot of modern music simply has very little dynamic range anyway, it's always just loud...

In comparison, a piano has a great dynamic range, between a single pianissimo note and the biggest double-handed fortissimo - when speakers are running at a level that makes average playing level useful, a fortissimo demands much more than the speakers can provide. Hence they are driven into distortion.

As a comparison, I use Event 20/20BAS V3 Monitors (with a Scarlett, although until it died I used my beloved eMU 0404USB), with 75W available continuous per speaker, and considerably more short term for transients. They are a good sounding speaker, yet not one I would necessarily suggest for PianoteQ, as they have a bit of a tubby upper bass region that works well with, say, electronica, and even orchestral like my favorite Saint-Saëns C Minor organ symphony, but needs compensation fiddling to sound completely even across the keyboard with solo piano.

Another thing to think about is whether you're wanting the speakers to give you the sound you will enjoy the most when playing live, or whether you're going to use PianoteQ to do recording, and are going to want to listen critically to those recordings and particularly mix tracks well. Quality speakers will let you do both of course, but for example there are monitors that are very revealing of detail and help in mixing precisely, but might not sound as enjoyable as a different monitor does when you're just having fun with PianoteQ!

Hi Ernest,

for me, important items would include these (from the Yamaha HS8 website)

2-way bass-reflex bi-amplified nearfield studio monitor with 8" cone woofer and 1" dome tweeter
38Hz - 30kHz frequency response
75W LF plus 45W HF bi-amp system for high-performance 120W power amplification
ROOM CONTROL and HIGH TRIM response controls
XLR and TRS phone jack inputs accept balanced or unbalanced signals

This to me is the point at which you can both play and record without feeling like missing out sonically and volume is enough to satisfy (ear care!) without distortion.

With nearfield monitors, I prefer rear bass reflex port like these have compared to others who have that port on the front, which kind of kills something of the clarity for me. I'm happy with forward facing bass reflex ports on larger speakers further away.

Others will all have their own prefs but when asking for some specs, those above do it for me - without mentioning larger studio monitors etc.

Some really interesting setups are being created by users of the forum - and it's worth looking at older threads here about this.

If your budget goes toward larger studio gear, I'd recommend visiting a quality studio or an event hire company, to talk about specs etc. and to hopefully hear some in action.

At a music store, I'd recommend listening to the gear and not to be quick to accept advice about tech without taking time to go home and research. Plenty of small speakers claiming to operate above their grade with interesting marketing buzzwords like "super bass extra response boost" or "clarity enhancing space inflex... etc" - most of which is about psychoacoustic processing (some is recycled tech from the 1980s) - not so much about 'pure reproduction', which is what you seem to desire. But, there is good and bad in all things and some smaller monitors might be more than fine for what you want.

Best of luck! and in the end trust your own ears may be best kind of advice which I echo

If you are on a budget you might like the KS-40A set from Kurzweil.
I have a pair of these and they perform really well regarding the set price of 80 euros.
Don't expect super low bass sounds, but they definitely don't sound like cheap creative speakers.

Thanks everyone for the valuable answers.

Speaking of budget, I'd like to spend less than 300€. What about the KRK RP5 RoKit G3 and the JBL 3 Series 305P MkII ?

Google for images of the mechanical construction diagram of a typical bass/mid drive unit, If it helps.

There is only so much the drive unit can move before it is mechanically restrained, or pushed too far.
If you drive a speaker too hard the voice coil (sitting in the magnet gap) can be damaged with the voice coil former being deformed. Damaged in this way the voice coil can scrape or stick with audible distortions, or seize completely.

Sure but not for a decent budget speaker!
For a single mono NXT panel type speaker?
If you want to rework all the patches (removing microphone and reverb emulation) and get someone else to play while you listen from the audience position in a lively hall, maybe quite capable, if it was a cost no object design. Meh, get a real piano!

I would rather continue with the traditional stereo pair.

Hitting the endstops can refer to either end of the suspension system, Basically full restraint of the cone at full motion, sometimes leading to damage of the drive unit.  Therefore you won't find a diagram with reference to a section of a drive unit called an endstop.

Those tiny cheap drive unit's motor systems would require very little power input to be pushed too far out of their linear operating range when receiving big dynamic swings from Pianoteq, when trying to get adequate levels. However they may be designed with steep EQ curves preventing any low frequencies from damaging the speakers for all I know.  I don't know what DSP design went into those speakers.

I doubt the Creative T20s would be able to benefit from much more power, if any at all, but that's academic though, there is probably more power than the motor systems can handle anyway. The physical properties of the drive units alone rules it out for quality sound reproduction.

I have found that using a central low frequency driver and two mid-range units (left and right) produces good results, possibly better than with the addition of a pair of tweeters.

I have imagined that this is for the somewhat more prosaic reason that it's easy to over-emphasise the higher frequencies in amplifying the sound of a piano, and thereby produce an unnaturally brittle sound. As far as I can tell a physical piano does not produce much energy at these frequencies.

Interestingly in this connection, I believe that a 'bright finger staccato' sounds as lively as it does due to the 'clacking' noise of the fingers as they strike the key tops.

One of my pianoteq setups is in a real baby grand shell. I removed the strings and metal frame and keyboard bed . I have been messing with various small enclosed speakers on the sound board and just above ... had 3 stereo pairs in there aimed in different directions. Fun and a lot of work but not great sounding.
Maybe the above mentioned exciters might be cool... maybe if attached to the sound board sound will come out the top and bottom of the piano.... Hmmmmmm....

Any have an experience —regarding piano frequencies— where a keyboard amplifier, such as a Roland, was more preferable than near field monitors?

Yes I'm very curious about those iLouds - I've been watching a lot of reviews.  The new larger MTMs are on the way now too - I assume they'll be out of this world.

Greg.

--- I edited this post because some things were incorrect and unclear ---
Recently, I spent quite some time testing a number of speakers with Pianoteq, only compared piano sound.

I first compared Adam A5X and A7X, Yamaha HS5 and HS7 extensively.
Obviously, the larger versions of both brands have a fuller bass. Both Adams seemed to have more bass than their Yamaha counterparts. I realized, however, that what that told all 4 of them apart as concerns "pleasantness for the ears" was more the mid and high range. Here, both Adams sounded clearly nicer than both Yamahas.

After an hour comparing those, I concluded: The added bass that you gain of the size increase from 5 to 7 does not warrant two much larger objects in my living room. The Adam A5X sounded fuller and more detailed in the mid and high range than the Yamaha HS5.

Then, I decided to also try the Neumann KH120's. Sizewise in the same range as the A5x and HS5, but in a higher price range. HS5 are about 300 euros a pair, A5X about 700. The Neumann's are about 1200 a pair.

At first hearing, I was surprised how little difference there was between the Neumans and the Adams. Both appeared to have similar loudness/frequency-curve. So, I almost bought the Adams A5X. But then, I started listening carefully and more extensively (another hour, I think) and with every minute, the Neumans increased their lead until the point where I decided to spend much more than I planned when entering the shop. What really impressed me is how well you really still hear a pianostring swinging in the mid and high range when playing forte and fortissimo.

I have the Neumans now since a month or so and I am really, really happy with that decision. The sound is really beautiful; I enjoy playing more than ever. No ear-fatigue whatsoever. Also, they sound very good no matter how loud they are. Never tried them to the max; a realistic piano volume can be achieved at about 60% of the loudness, but I often play a bit quieter. It is amazing how much sound - also in the bass - these small boxes create, while still being very accurate.

So, the Adams are great, but if you want to invest some more, the Neumans are greater.

So, if they are designed for the Nord pianos, does that mean they'll be lousy general purpose monitors, or lousy for Pianoteq?  I wonder what they *really* mean

Greg

That is probably it.

I am reviving  this thread because I think I had a breakthrough in my never-ending quest for the best Pianoteq sound. I recently tested a pair of ART RM5 studio monitors in a very good setting in a music store ( private, insulated practice room with a quality CD player and my "reference" records).  I had read good reviews and was attracted by the small, flat size and the ability to wall-mount (built-in VESA  mount in the back). I was amazed by the clarity, imaging and bass extension the RM5 where capable off. The stated frequency response claims -3dB down at 45 Hz...and they sure sound like it. Piano reproduction was particularly impressive (including my favorite Serkin Beethoven sonata CD). Even my own 2017 release never sounded as good

The RM5 are sealed enclosures featuring a 5 inch woofer and a ring-radiator tweeter, as well as side mounted twin passive radiators. The 300-watt total amplifiers (25+125 per side) are located in the right speaker, which also features all the controls and inputs (xlr/bal/unbal combos and 1/8" stereo). It also has bluetooth capability. They are designed AND made in Canada.

I bought the RM5 and found some small tv wall-mount VESA standard brackets. The installation is our living room one, with Roland FP-80 DP against a wall, mac mini computer and wireless mouse and keyboard, computer monitor on a home-made  music rack (actually using the l-shape metal stands that the RM5 come with!). I have a splitter (with separate volume controls) at the mac minis's audio output, sending audio to both the FP-80 and the ART RM5. This way I can balance between the two in any ratio.

Overall, I am extremely pleased with the new set up.The sound is full and rich, without any harshness. The bass is incredibly deep and tight, not boomy or overwhelming. The proximity and spacing of the RM5 makes for a natural imaging, particularly for "player" type presets with close miking and little reverberation. The RM5 sound great on their own, but sometimes I add a little bit of the FP-80's built in speakers for a more enveloping sound. The RM5's 300 watt is, admittedly a little on the overkill side. However, sealed enclosures need more power than ported ones. Any which way, they sound great at any volume. And they come in handy when you need to fill the room with your favorite party music!. These monitors are not cheap ($600 CDN after the promotional rebate), but they feature exceptionally accurate, full frequency reproduction in a very small format. The ability to wall-mount clinched the deal for me. I love the uncluttered look. If you are still looking for great living room or studio monitors for your virtual piano, and have the budget, I strongly recommend the RM5.

DISCLAIMER: I am not associated in any way with ART or Yorkville. Just a happy owner.