Topic: Help with some high harmonics (video)

I am trying to reduce some of the high harmonics or resonances, or whatever it is there around the 4500Hz. Please watch the video where I try to isolate and reduce the frequencies so you can hear. It is noticeable when playing the middle notes and with low velocities only. I have tested modifying all the parameters in Pianoteq but none helped to reduce the frequencies. So maybe EQ is the only way like in the video? But it also changes the overall sound.
I think what I would like is a parameter in Pianoteq to modify the amplitude of harmonics in relation with MIDI velocities and notes pitch. That would be great. What do you think? Listen to it in the video:
https://youtu.be/Vz5K0fPMRjs
Thanks for watching

Re: Help with some high harmonics (video)

Hey Hector,

looks like what you're doing is defo on the right track to remove undesired frequency bands of audio.

[Pre-note to say I'm not hearing something wrong - just adding this for other readers coming by later who may misconstrue that I'm treating this as an error. To me, it's a great piano sound (better off youtube) and these things are more personal taste and endless in variety, esp. once you start down the road to editing your presets. For me, the defaults are better than they have ever been and continue to inspire me, out-of-the-box.]

You can create narrower EQ 'notches' and more of them, focusing in on tiny aspects of any sound - the narrower, the less affecting it will be to an overall sound.

Do not forget the pre-EQ in Pianoteq which will allow you to trim any frequencies before they enter the model.

And the post-EQ (EQU3) parametric ones which will also allow great notching.

Also the main spectrum profile these can be critical to adjusting up or down overtones in a way which can seem simplistic but are dramatically important - even a small up or down to any of these. The manual is pretty fine for explaining it better - but if you want to remove high overtones, lower the the individual sliders on the right, and surprisingly, even by raising a little the first overtones, these come to the front and lessen the higher ones too. Balancing all this is half the fun.

Personally, I don't hear something I dislike - maybe, and please be aware, no matter your speakers or room, what you hear is going to be different to anyone in a different room/headphone combo and so on.

If you want note-per note and more tools, Painoteq Pro allows far greater control and more choices in how to balance the parameters across the keys - worth it, if you're dedicated to getting just the sound you desire.

But, if you are wanting to zero in on just particular harmonics, Pianoteq Pro gives great adjustments for this, including being able to affect those harmonics with a 'pen', including variants like a comb, several harmonics series, haircut etc.. so you can quickly make a 3rd harmonic go away, then haircut back in the areas you want to keep strong.. very versatile for making certain high zinging go away, or tweak for a softer (less overtones) or more inharmonic sound (just per note or any number or all at once) - mostly done for personal taste per piano, if not per note if you're extra keen on making a piano just the way you envisage.

There's also behind the Action button, 2 damper functions which may eliminate some harmonic behaviours, damper position and damper duration. These model how damper felt meets with strings. If you want to lose some harmonic resonance, you can try tightening these

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Help with some high harmonics (video)

Hector, I don't hear anything wrong in the video example either. There is no 4500 Hz content coming from pianoteq at that low velocity as the real-time spectrum clearly shows, so if you really hear such a high tone it must come from the rest of the audio chain. If on the other hand you mean the quite important inharmonic due to string stiffness very obvious on C1 for example, then it is part of the characteristic of the Steinway D and it varies from piano to piano.

If you don't like it, one trick is to display the Detune panel from the Advanced tuning tool and reduce a lot the value for C1 (something like -35 cents) to make the inharmonic much less apparent.

Re: Help with some high harmonics (video)

Thank you Qexl
I may have to have a look and upgrade to the pro version. I didn't realize I was going to be so picky with these things when I bought the Standard version
Yes I am aware that different headphones and rooms will affect this, but the problem is I have tested it with 3 different headphones and I didn't like it in any of them.
For now I have managed to adjust the harmonics for some of the notes by using just the Pianoteq Equalizer and it gives good results. Thank you!

Gilles, I am not saying there is something wrong, I'm just trying to adjust Prelude D preset to my liking. I don't want to detune the notes. You are right it is noticeable in the C1 note. Also A#0. That is why is a bit distracting to me. It is very subtle, you have to turn the volume up. That is why it didn't appear on that spectrum graph. But look at this new video, I have been analyzing it with more detail and you can see the spike clearly in 4390 Hz for C1 note. For D1, it moves to 5000 Hz so it is less noticeable so I don't touch these frequencies. I am happy with the solution with the Equalizer for now

if any of you want to reproduce this yourself in your headphones or room, please test it. Create a series of C1 notes with 2 velocity (normal velocities sound good, I have found that if the velocities are set to 1, sometimes the volume of the notes change randomly... weird...) and turn the volume up. You can use SPAN plugin to isolate frequencies clicking CTRL and dragging on the graph. then ALT + drag to narrow it down too.
as show in the video:
https://youtu.be/ja7bzlBPnxU

Last edited by Hector (20-02-2019 19:33)

Re: Help with some high harmonics (video)

Detuning a given note is an excellent idea for this kind of thing Gilles.

Aha, Hector I'd definitely say after those detailed posts with videos you're going to enjoy Pro. If you are willing to give it time and effort you can really exert amazing control, just as much as gaining also new understanding of physical pianos. Some 30 more params with note per note.

I find I operate in different modes that I'm aware of when using Pianoteq, one focused on music, the other, all tweaking. Luckily we can separate these (who said that? we did, the two of me.). It would be a bummer if my fussy self got too much out in front when I'm in the middle of enjoying the music.

Have you tried the EQU3 notch idea? You can do some fancy laser surgery on tiny bands and and use more than one in a row. Most presets give you 2 spots, so you can do cumulative or subtractive things.

In EQU3 if you right-click the middle dot and give it minus 25 gain and a Q of 25. You get maximum cut on a tiny range. Drag the dot left and right to kill any small section of the spectrum - and lower the Q to take out more range, not that you'd want to go too wide unless for production reasons.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Help with some high harmonics (video)

Hector wrote:

Gilles, I am not saying there is something wrong, I'm just trying to adjust Prelude D preset to my liking. I don't want to detune the notes. You are right it is noticeable in the C1 note. Also A#0. That is why is a bit distracting to me. It is very subtle, you have to turn the volume up. That is why it didn't appear on that spectrum graph. But look at this new video, I have been analyzing it with more detail and you can see the spike clearly in 4390 Hz for C1 note. For D1, it moves to 5000 Hz so it is less noticeable so I don't touch these frequencies. I am happy with the solution with the Equalizer for now

I see it but I can't hear anything bothersome at low velocity even with volume turned up with my AKG K702 headphones. It's noticeable with higher velocity but doesn't bother me. Maybe you have more sensitive (and/or younger...) ears than me...What strikes me most is the mostly constant inharmonic content in the low range. Anyway, if your filtering makes you happy, that's the important thing!

Re: Help with some high harmonics (video)

I think your ears are golden Gilles - I'm sure if Hector is anything like us he's going to love Pianoteq as the discoveries mount as do the continuing realisations about just how well made a thing it is - I read a future beta tester from the above

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors