Topic: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

Alais, since upgrading Pianoteq to 6.4 in order to play the really wonderful Bechstein, I reach the performance limits of my mac mini; already lowered polyphony to 48 and increased buffersize to 512. But nasty clicks with everything except when very modest playing.....

My question is: is it wise to migrate to the i7 2600 MHz ( the fastest available model late 2012), or should I have to invest much more money in a stronger system??

And would increasing RAM help  ( now only 4Gig).....

It is tricky, as I have no room for a big machine......

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

Your processor should give you better performance. You should definitively upgrade RAM, even with MAC OS X 10.9x 4Gb is not enough; I would start from there. 8Gb will give you a big increase in performance; 16Gb would be better if you run many applications at once, or RAM-consuming apps like photo-editors, video-editors etc.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

For Pianoteq, upgrading RAM won't make much, if any difference. But yes, upgrading to that 2.6 GHz i7 will definitely mean a pretty decent improvement. It has two cores more than the 2.5 GHz i5 and higher turbo speed (up to 3.6 GHz vs 3.1 of the i5).

Last edited by EvilDragon (20-01-2019 23:14)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

I am running a copy of Pianoteq PRO v.6.4.0 using the loaded Demo preset C. Bechstein DG Recording 1 (including all four of its microphones) from an iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2012) processor (2.7 GHz Intel Core i5) with macOS High Sierra Version 10.13.6 and 8 gigabytes of RAM installed  —and by neither hitch nor glitch.

Also I am running with even both iTunes and Safari opened, just as I'm entering this text.

Now I'm getting a Pianoteq performance index of 89..110 at an internal sample rate of 44100 Hz and a buffer size of 256 samples, auto-optimistically!

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (21-01-2019 06:23)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

Is this your Mac Mini?
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/specs/mac-mini-core-i5-2.5-late-2012-specs.html. You can double-check your CPU in Pianoteq under [Options]-[Perf]-[CPU]. At least we'll know if it's the CPU or something else.

If you do have the Intel Core i5-3210M @ 2.50GHz, it is beefy enough to run Pianoteq. You should be getting a Pianoteq Performance Index of around 100 - more than enough to confidently run Pianoteq with these settings:

Sample Rate: 48000 Hz
Audio Buffer Size: 192 Samples (4.0 ms)
Max Polyphony: Auto (Optimistic)

But the CPU is also a low-voltage mobile processor (less powerful than the equivalent desktop processors in the iMacs) - so check your power saving settings and make sure they are turned off.

Last edited by Groove On (21-01-2019 04:50)

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

I have been running 6.3.1 (at 24-bit 48KHz, 128 note polyphony) on a i5 mini, 2.3 KHz, 8 gig ram with no problem. I also have another system with PT 6.4 (same settings as  on the i5) on a i7, 2.3 GHz mini, only 4 gig ram...and it runs perfectly, no glitch , no cracks, nothing. I have yet to instal PT 6.4 on the older i5 mini and I will report how it performs. My feeling is that an i5 mini is perfectly up to the task!

Last edited by aWc (21-01-2019 05:46)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

THks a lot everyone for the help!  I am also running the same model for Hauptwerk, but with 16 Gig RAM as you have to load the samples before playing. That is also on the limit; when you play with all manuals coupled and many stops on, it is rather simple to reach the maximum ratings.

It makes no difference if I use Pianoteq stand alone or with my favourite DAW ( Reaper).  I use a Echo Audiofire 12 coupled with a Saffire ( the old vertical standing unit) to form an aggregate audio device.

I will certainly do a test with a more modest audio device connected, f.i. the MOTU Microbook 2.

greetings,

Geert

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

You may want to consider the following excerpt taken directly from Modartt’s Complete F.A.Q. on its Support Page and under the Troubleshooting heading of it (https://www.pianoteq.com/faq):


I hear crackles and pops in the sound.

Make sure that your operating system is updated and optimized, free from spyware, trojans and CPU intensive anti-virus or utility programs running in the background. If using another CPU intensive VST instrument or effects plugin (such as convolution reverb), we recommend that you use it for playback and editing only if you encounter any issues. For playback and editing, increase ASIO buffer size to maximum. Although the latency will increase, the CPU load will decrease. If these adjustments do not help, your CPU may not be powerful enough (please refer to our hardware requirement specification). If this is the case you should reduce polyphony and/or the internal sample rate in the Options menu. You can also try reducing the number of output channels in the Microphones setting window.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

Marc Verhoeven wrote:

Your processor should give you better performance. You should definitively upgrade RAM, even with MAC OS X 10.9x 4Gb is not enough; I would start from there. 8Gb will give you a big increase in performance; 16Gb would be better if you run many applications at once, or RAM-consuming apps like photo-editors, video-editors etc.


Modartt support:

How much RAM (internal memory) is needed for smooth playback?

Just 256 MB (megabytes). Most modern computers are equipped with at least 4 GB (gigabytes) of RAM. In contrast to many other virtual pianos, there is no need to invest in any additional RAM sticks to achieve maximum performance.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

ok, today I tested with only a MOTU microbook 2 connected. Makes no difference. I must admit, that only with very complex playing, like f.i. midi files from the Yamaha pianocontests, things go wrong, but I do not like to be just below the crackling point. Also, when I use MusicReader, I hear a crackling when I turn pages....

I must say, that I also have some 12 USB,s connected...but most of them are very low in data, like a mouse, Midi interface, Midi controllers etc.

I will have a look at a faster CPU.  Thnks again for your attention.....

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

aWc wrote:

I have been running 6.3.1 (at 24-bit 48KHz, 128 note polyphony) on a i5 mini, 2.3 KHz, 8 gig ram with no problem. I also have another system with PT 6.4 (same settings as  on the i5) on a i7, 2.3 GHz mini, only 4 gig ram...and it runs perfectly, no glitch , no cracks, nothing. I have yet to instal PT 6.4 on the older i5 mini and I will report how it performs. My feeling is that an i5 mini is perfectly up to the task!

I installed PTY 6.4 on my mini (i5, 2.3GHz). It works fine, no artefacts whatsoever. I tried huge glissandos with the pedal down and I hardly reach 50% of cpu power. Typical usage is 20%, with settings of 24-bit/48KHz and 128-note polyphony. So to the OP: there is something not clean about your system. Use virus/malware checker.Ultimately, you could reinstall the OS

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

I use a i5-4220Y -- low power, fanless, 1.6GHz turbo to 1.9GHz -- but on Linux and it runs perfect with direct hardware access at pretty high settings.  With JACK audio server support, it takes probably 50% more CPU and I start getting some weird artifacts at those settings so I have to drop it down a little bit.

I would bring up some system diagnostic tools to see what else might be running.  OSX should be have similar command line tools compared to Linux -- have TOP up running at all times and see what else could be running at the same time. Maybe you have some system/background processes constantly running now.

Re: Would upgrade mac mini late 2012 from i5 to i7 help ??

Pianoteq is highly dependent on CPU performance. This to me sounds like a CPU performance tuning issue more than anything (but yeah there could be background processes also stealing CPU cycles).

I am not sure how Mac OS X handles frequency scaling. But even with HWP (hardware-controlled CPU frequency scaling, which Intel calls "speed shift"), P-state transitions occur in 1-30ms, which is still much too laggy to prevent CPU overloads. CPU scaling is currently too reactive and laggy to CPU load to be of use in preventing CPU overloads. One of the problems I think is that while DSP capacity is heavily dependent on CPU frequency, CPU frequency scaling isn't very sensitive to DSP load. Because it is relatively slow to scale and ignores DSP load, the CPU frequency often doesn't scale until after an overload occurs, or even doesn't scale at all. I don't think Mac OS X has DSP-sensitive proactive scaling algorithms. The closest I have seen to anything like that is http://rg42.org/oss/jackfreqd/start

In short: 1. Don't expect any better low latency throughput performance than your baseline frequency (don't expect frequency scaling to provide enhanced performance) and 2. Adjust your baseline frequency to your performance needs.

My performance index on a Core i5 8265U can vary from 26 - 130 based on what baseline frequency I choose (800mhz, 1600mhz, 2000mhz or 3800mhz) based on power management settings. I have to be very careful with polyphony or sample rates at the lower frequencies. At the higher frequencies, as someone else stated, I can do glissandos with the sustain pedal down, get up to 256+ polyphony at 44.1khz and still not worry about CPU overload.

What does the performance tab of the settings menu indicate (CPU frequency, performance index, etc)?

I am not familiar with OS X power and CPU performance management. Other Mac OS X users may be able to pitch in as to the performance tuning they do.