Topic: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

I am a bass player planning equipment for a long-term gig, jazz piano trio. There is insufficient space and budget for a "real piano", so hoping to use Pianoteq with a Roland FP-90. (We like the key feel of the Roland, but find its piano sound to be "pretty good" but not sublime.)

We do not anticipate needing to tweak or change piano patches real-time, just pick one great sounding piano in advance, set it up, and use it consistently. The piano player is not particularly tech-y, so we really want to get as close as we can to "turn-it-on-and-just-play".

Also, we want to have the on-stage gear as uncluttered as possible, so strongly prefer to host pianoteq on something small, unobtrusive and running headless (after initial setup). Great, glitch-free sound even under heavy polyphony load is paramount, and stability and reliability are of course crucial. Low or no cooling fan noise and great-sounding DAC solution are also priorities. Note that we expect that the device hosting Pianoteq will run only that app (and any needed drivers, etc) so that OS setup can be optimized where possible.

I have read all the threads I can find on this forum that relate to this topic, including the very extensive rPi thread. I am not opposed to Linux/Pi approaches, but find that this and other threads seem to be more aimed at studio use/cases and prioritizing budget concerns. We don't want to break the bank, but are willing to spend what it takes to achieve the above-mentioned objectives if there are better choices. (Mixer and amplification will be Bose T8S and L1+sub. There will be one iPad somewhere on the stage, so in a pinch we could VNC into the pianoteq device if something went wrong during performance.)

I have been thinking about a MacMini paired with a decent USB audio/midi interface, but grateful for any advice from users here who have done similar live performance pianoteq deployments.

thanks for any suggestions...

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

How about Intel's Compute Stick or NUC?

Hard work and guts!

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

You have just what type of bass, exactly?

I see now from your initial topic, dated from September.  You use an acoustic!

Sometime after your first post, expressing your considering previously a real baby grand, a piano which since only became prohibitive because of the lack of available space in the venue mentioned, in addition to your budget considerations for it, Roland since released its LX700 series of digital pianos.  Certainly one of these LX700 series pianos, is cost-effective, appreciably, compared to the baby grand. 

The new series like Pianoteq, exploits modeled piano technology, opposed to lifeless digitized samples which are static.  But, unlike Pianoteq, it houses the technology inside a few finely finished variations on the aesthetically beautiful and traditional upright piano cabinetry marked exclusively by the new series.

Perhaps you are in the market to procure something eye catching; that is something especially beautiful to the most trendy restaurant goers, and, even approachable acoustic jazz enthusiasts, so long as it however is feasible to you and your contractor, or, any number of fellow business partners.

Imagine if you will, simply, piano players coming to the venue to play, irrespective of their tenures, and having purely music and music sheets or an iPad that they’ll use to eventually beautifully entertain the diners the guest who come to dine graciously!   While some players more tech savvy indeed and temperamental rightly will expect to customize LX700 parameters that are intrinsically similar to Pianoteq’s, yet differently from their tablets or phones, others less savvy are just free to raise a piano key cover and play immediately.  Without so much as a power-on button, Roland LX700 series accommodates both types of players.

Seriously, since I was a jazz drummer and maitre d’ in Northern California, let me stress you will want only piano players whom you barely know to have all of their attention fixed and focused appropriately at the keyboard you too are ultimately to adopt.  Now uprights afford a look that’s truly elegant even for modern jazz trios.  And, to some they even impart a sense of nostalgia because they’re also traditional!

The upright, a truly modern representation of the tried and true piano of the old fashioned but sorely missed eateries of yesteryear, might today permit just a fabulous up and coming singer, to perform as prima donna  —and her keyboardist, whilst engrossed by its undeniable dimensions, also engulfed in the sound of that good ole upright form, in concert. 

From highly efficient speakers built into a new Roland LX700 series digital (modelled) upright, nearby stage monitors are altogether nonessential for other instrumentalists or a vocalist to hear the piano.  They may appear all-in-all redundant.

Besides, Roland LX700 series digital pianos were designed with the absolute best in piano speaker technology, specifically marketed to meet the demand from small music venues like the one you’re planning.

Lastly from a jazz drummer to a jazz bassist, I suggest you form your jazz trios, employing the modelled pianos found in the solid digital upright series made by Roland; maybe a sort of a sometimes furniture piece, but, like Pianoteq, it relies upon modelled pianos as its basis (puns unintended).  And, make preemptive usage of Pianoteq within only your appreciably expandable MacMini interfaced by a Focusrite Clarett, since the Clarett allows you to use your favorite plugins in real-time via Thunderbolt —that is— if you should ever have somehow to compensate for any and all unforeseeable deficiencies which can present themselves in a distant mix, potentially, whenever coming out of a Bose speaker system that was once most advantageously and acoustically positioned somewhere, and somewhere always arguably temporary to a restaurateur in his own business establishment  —but understandably his however lacking structural and studio quality acoustic reinforcements and even some of the professional posh audio listening room treatments!


My suggestions reviewed are as follows:


1.)  MacMini headless computer

2.)  Focusrite Clarett audio interface

3.)  Roland LX700 series digital piano


An informative review of the Roland LX700 series digital pianos is on YouTube: https://youtu.be/6yR4pgUU2-w

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (12-12-2018 16:14)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

I think a solid-state laptop is still the best solution for live performance with Pianoteq. You can run it headless, but it has all the components built-in if there is a problem.

A “headless PTQ blackbox” sounds cool in theory until it fails on stage and you need to whip out the extra mouse/keyboard/monitor to troubleshoot it.

e.g. if the choice is a MacBook Air vs. Mac Mini, I’ll take the MacBook Air.

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

I have Pianoteq 6 Stage running on a MacBook Air, connected to my FP30 (so the same as your FP90) via a USB lead. The output from the MacBook (the headphone socket) then goes to my audio system.

Even when the MacBook goes "to sleep", Pianoteq still works.

It sounds "sublime" !

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

You realize of course, the MacMini, the cheaper choice out of the last three (3) possible solutions (above) mentioned, will run efficiently and entirely from your on-stage music reader  —the iPad!

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

Thanks all for suggestions.  Many workable alternatives to consider, apparently.

It looks like choice of hardware boils down to a few key decisions:

1) headless or not (since I plan on a set-and-forget Pianoteq use-case, I still prefer headless on stage, but will keep  screen/mouse/kbd nearby in case of trouble; will also consider VNC to iPad. Also, on-stage DP has on-board piano sounds, which could get us through a set or a night, if pianoteq box just completely craps out)

2) OS choice: Windows, Linux, MacOS (I am much more familiar with Mac and Linux. Note that I plan a dedicated Pianoteq box, running nothing else, so OS support for other applications is not a factor for me here)

3) Form Factor (I prefer smaller, but want to ensure hardware reliability under load)

4) I/O and DAC/Audio (I plan on USB for midi in, and outboard USB DAC, so 2 or more USB ports is the only key I/O requirement)

With these in mind, I see (at least) two workable alternatives seem to fit my need: Mac Mini or Intel NUC (running linux).

Looking at the dozens of models of Intel NUC, my question is CPU. Pianoteq FAQ seems to provide only general guidance about recommended cpu spec, but in these forums I see discussion about clicks and pops under heavy polyphony load, over-clocking, cores, processor speed, etc. Of course one could ensure performance by spending more on a really high-end cpu, but $$ aside, this brings cooling and power considerations into the picture.

Is there any general consensus about a minimum cpu spec above which pianoteq performance is assured stable?

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

I’m totally sure there’s one reachable, about any Apple product at least!

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

I found the zotac zbox to be very reliable, like a NUC without a fan. I own a 547 (I think) but I am not using pianoteq with it.
Pianoteq is running on a i3 3120 inside an akasa euler case - also fanless. Under normal circumstances this should be enough CPU-Power. Pushing the sustain and playing with my arms - yes it probably will crackle (I could give it a try if you want to).
The point where pianoteq starts crackling depends on the OS setup, the cpu, the audio interface and also what latency you need.If you are comfortable with 512 samples buffersize it is difficult to run into problems, if you want to achieve 32 samples then your hardware requirements are high (eg RME audio interface).

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

Just a heads up that in today's Pianoteq newsletter, found out about this Zynthian Pianoteq announcement.

I was unaware of the Zynthanian project, but definitely could be a solution for a small form live Pianoteq setup with some do-it-yourself involved. Scrolled their project forum and saw some love for Pianoteq there. Looks like upgrade from demo Pianoteq ver to Stage only (at time of writing??).. probably worth checking out if small form factor is prime.

Ahh another thread here about Zynthanian here on Pianoteq forum (to save some clicks).

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

Before I settled on the MacBook Airs for Pianoteq - I was gravitating towards the ASRock Desk Mini - it's about the size of a lunch/bread box; bigger than a NUC but still a decent size for schlepping to a gig. The main benefit is it supports full desktop CPUs with a proper box fan for cooling - so a lot of the performance issues from mobile CPUs can be avoided. The compatible desktop CPUs are half the price of the mobile CPUs - but still have double the performance.

Here's a video by ASRock that compares the Desk Mini with NUCs and desktops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg8L6iK1dDM

Last edited by Groove On (23-11-2018 07:01)

Re: Recommended setup for live performance ? - headless, set-and-forget

While you have a total consensus from experienced Apple users like me who attest to Apple reliability, some suggest you settle for or try out really unproven configurations that might just work in theory that is hopefully without the sounds of snap, crackle and pop, only so long as you confine yourself to some normalcy, to play (jazz) lightly  —and fetter your artistic expressiveness within software polyphony restraints!

Advantageously, from the configuration I suggest you use, you get the processing power that through Roland’s PureAcoustic Piano Modeling guarantees unlimited polyphony as you’d upgrade your keyboard selection to the Roland LX700 series from your current choice the FP90’s limited polyphony.  You get also an upgraded keyboard action that could feel better to you than does the PHA 50 of the FP90 keybed, since simply the Hybrid Grand Keyboard the action on the LX700 series is just Roland’s best available today.  As its keys are much longer than its predecessor’s, it subtly delivers a very vibrant player adjustable piano touch, processor computated, computer generated and precisely vibrated to mimic, realistically, incremental impressions from the behaviors of combined genuine piano strings and piano body interaction, all while you play.  Believably an added bonus worth several considerations has to be its cabinet’s clear hammer noise as you raise its piano lid.  With it the closely seated jazz musicians formally accustomed to piano trio settlngs and theirselves on real traditional acoustic instruments such as drums and an upright bass are indeed in for positively some interesting inherently modern musicality for those instrumentalists to play along to the typically easily localized sounds, if coming from the familiar piano cabinetry more so than a distant Bose speaker system manufactured as a general array. 

Modelled piano sound comes from the Roland PureAcoustic Piano Modeling technology relayed through powerful Acoustic Projection multi-speaker systems as though it were coming from expertly crafted cabinetry belonging to an actual acoustic piano!

Importantly, to perhaps aspiring jazz musicians, specifically, and in addition to unlimited polyphony compared to Pianoteq’s or another VST3’s meager 250 max, the configuration I strongly suggest you in wide public surroundings use offers already a model of an highly regarded American grand piano for anyone wanting to perform improvisational forms of music  —jazz!  So, if you stick with altogether Pianoteq and your eventual headless choice, but the FP90 instead of a Roland LX700 series, you’ve obviously absolutely no famed New York Steinway modeled piano nor any other famous American grand piano for that matter —but exclusively European grands plus one Japanese!

Respectfully with regards to your necessitating processing power to operate Pianoteq, successfully, I view your first choice, the MacMini as best still —with an iPad also inconspicuously placed (somewhere on your foreseeable stage).

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (08-04-2019 01:11)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.