Topic: The elusive piano and setting for Satie Gymnopedies

After several weeks of audtioning pianos and pre-sets I have finally settled on the elusive "perfect" sound I have been seeking.

The YC5 with preset Solo Recording. This setting mixes two spaced omnis well away from the piano
with a matching pair of DPA 4006s close to the hands. Wow, what a nice combination of ambience and immediacy.

After listening to several excellent commercial recordings I found I needed to adjust further to enhance the atmosphere.

I deepened the bass by boosting around 100hz.

I also added a longer third-party hall reverb  - a 4 sec. RT mixed in substantially at -6dB. I kept the Ptq small hall in but may want to reconsider this. Any thoughts here on combining reverbs in this way?

At any rate, you don't want to rule out the little YC5 for classical repertoire. It might be exactly what you are looking for.

I will be uploading my recordings in the next couple days.

Last edited by gtingley (01-10-2018 02:43)

Re: The elusive piano and setting for Satie Gymnopedies

YC5 seems to be getting more fond mentions in recent months - it's charming.

Just in case this helps with your mixed reverbs, I really like to split Pianoteq over two or more tracks to isolate aspects, including reverb response. Not for purist classical but for a 'recorded piano' sound. Unless subtly is priority, it's probably better for modern piano.

For track 1:

Use Pianoteq with the close mics and inbuilt hall reverb of choice (convolution works).

For track 2:

Begin with another instance of Pianoteq using the same preset but change to the more distant mics with your convolution reverb of choice, or match them up (even better if your reverb tool allows splitting the reverb impulse front and back - then you can pick front of the reverb impulse for track 1, and back of the impulse for track 2 or vice versa) and variants ad infinitum.

Think of it as compartmentalising the schema, like reality, up close piano and further away, the longer effects of reverb, which you can balance, including such elements as giving a sense of motion (like the sound drifting left to right, or from in front to a rear of a space etc.) - treating those separately is the goal.

You can push things around in this way to generate space, without overdoing 'washy' or compounding reverb into the purer tones of the instrument.

Eg. of some details to edit for greater effect:

In Pianoteq settings for track 2, maybe add more unison width (like sound bouncing off) and more impedance/sympathetic resonance/duplex, less hammer noise, less note-off and pedal noise (do we really hear these clearly from back of hall), interestingly move Q factor right to kill higher frequencies earlier (sound dampens somewhat over distance in large space), play with direct sound duration in balance with all that.

Further, in the DAW you might apply something like a gate on track 2, to allow the sound to swell, rather than have immediate impact (that's already handled well by close mic setup on track 1). What the aim is, is to consider track 2 "other" sound beyond the piano - and since it's often affected by seating, walls and flow etc, it's often more smokey or ringing in some way than the 'bubble' we inhabit on stage or at the keyboard, or in front of our imaginary piano, if that all makes sense.

I like to go further with other tracks (for focus on say hammers inside the cabinet with it's own more resonant and short lived harmonics) but it's endless really once we get on that tangent and for me, it's mostly about finding a non-universal or tailored 'recorded album' sound, rather than something we might enjoy daily - and too much of that does take things away further and further from a purist classical sound.

Having said that, it's amazing how some details very low in a mix can add 'something' - it's virtually unlimited as to what that something might be.

But all perhaps worth mentioning if you're keen on creating sound stages with more than one reverb it can be rewarding. Cheers gtingley!

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: The elusive piano and setting for Satie Gymnopedies

More valuable advice, thanks Qexl! As a not-particularly-techy musician, I have been finding your posts incredibly useful in my quest for 'my' piano sounds. Not too long ago, I hit on the idea of blending the 'Player' mics in YC5 with distant mics copied in from the 1926 Pleyel Recording preset (within Pianoteq itself), with fairly satisfying results. But I hadn't thought about blending 2 signals in a DAW as you describe. Something else for me to try!

Re: The elusive piano and setting for Satie Gymnopedies

Excellent dazric, it's fantastic finding a sound with Pianoteq. Over years I got very used to the idea that a digital piano was such a fixed item but wow the ability to mic and tweak the finest of details in Pianoteq, even without a DAW is the stuff of dreams for me.

Love finding others are enjoying experimenting too - love to hear what you come up with.

Really look forward to hearing your new recordings using the YC5 @gtingly.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors