Topic by daniel88

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Topic: Home Setup with Intel NUC?

Hi there,

Just tried pianoteq stage trial with my Roland RP301 and AKG K701 and was already very enthusiastic by the sound. I don't really like the sound of the Roland RP301 and started playing less and less piano, I do like the keys though, so now I thought Pianoteq might be a satisfying solution. I have looked around for some information but couldn't really find answers to my questions, so I hope you guys can put me on the right track here...

Below the Roland RP301 I would like to attach a small mini ITX pc (built by myself) but what CPU would you guys advise me? Then I would like to use some small studio monitors (perhaps Genelec 8010a), I know larger monitors with a sub might be better, but because everything is in the living room I have to come to an agreement with my wife;). Would the 8010's produce a realistic piano sound? I'm aiming to get something close to accoustic, with a small budget of course;), or would another brand / type of approximately the same size be a better choice? If small monitors would not be an option I think I'd rather choose to just use my headphones.

Then of course I would need an external soundcard and something to drive the AKG K701, but I don't know what to look for, do I need a headphone amp? And if so, which one would you guys advise? And for the soundcard, I came across the RME Babyface but thought it to be rather expensive, perhaps Steinberg is an option?

A lot of questions, I hope you guys can help me with (some of) them.

Regards from the Netherlands,

Daniel

Last edited by daniel88 (05-10-2018 11:06)

Reply by mcoll

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Re: Home Setup with Intel NUC?

Can't say what CPU would suffice. Personally I have an I3-4130 desktop (4800 points on cpubenchmark.com) and I've never encounted any problems with Pianoteq at low latency and with high polyphony.

Concerning the monitors, I don't think those will suffice, as they only go down to 74 Hz (at +/-3 dB) and they will sound thin, radiolike, not like a natural piano sound. I think you would get very satisfactory results with JBL LSR 305P MKII on a budget. Maybe better would be Yamaha HS7 or the LSR 308. And even better, Focal Alpha 50 or 65. From this point I don't think it gets significantly better without going way up in price. Of course, there are probably many models that would perform quite well. These are some well regarded ones that seem to be generally appreciated in their price range. Personally I had the LSR 305 and currently the Alpha 65 and they both performed very well, but it's quite a step up. Also had the Eris E8 between the two, but the E8 wasn't a huge step up from the LSR 305. And before I had the Behringer B2030A and it was significantly inferior to the JBL in my opinion. As a rule of thumb, I think you should go for something that goes at least down to 45Hz +/-10 dB if you don't want the piano to sound thin and lacking body.

For the headphones, in the same budget I think you could get the Audient iD14 or iD22 which I'm currently considering and they will power the headphones without any trouble. But so will the RME Babyface. Steinberg (UR22) has a significantly lower power for the headphone output, but otherwise it's a good, stable option that performs without issues. It's what I currently have.

I'm sure others will come with more helpful information than I did.

Have fun and enjoy your future setup!

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Home Setup with Intel NUC?

Hi Daniel88, I don't have current experience with small computers, except to suggest non-specifics (faster=better etc. and consider refurbished recent used PC maybe, if you can find something cheaper and still fast) but some thoughts about your other questions..

About speakers, yes agree @mcoll (some good advice given) - HS7 were too small for my ears. The HS8 (8inch) do a great job for piano (suspension of disbelief - loud enough near, not too bassy or huge for living room) as well as being great for general monitoring, highly recommend still. That is a minimum spec, just in my opinion from my experience.

Headphones, there are quite a few expensive sets which could be recommended with some certainty but more variation in budget range. I think it's less about others' opinions and more about trying some out and finding ones that sound best to you (unless talking about well known studio gear which nobody can argue about). But if you save on speakers and spend more on headphones, maybe also have a look at AKG range.

Interface, babyface would probably be my current choice.

It's great to get a system working to budget but I've definitely found (like a lot of others I'm sure) that for a really enjoyable and inspiring situation, it's pretty hard to recommend lower priced solutions. With the top scale items, it's almost impossible to go wrong but, mixing and matching budget gear can be surprisingly good and efficient but can also lead to some disappointments, avoided somewhat by building your rig as you can afford, when you find a piece, like a used pair of speakers and such. Nothing stopping you getting some used budget gear and replacing elements over the years.

Just some thoughts, hope some of that helps, and best of luck with your goal!

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Reply by daniel88

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Re: Home Setup with Intel NUC?

Thank you for your replies.

I understand these monitors would not suffice (without a subwoofer?), as the other monitors you guys mention are larger I might just start by just using the headphones I already have: AKG K701, later on I can always add better monitors. So the audient Id 14 or 22 might be good options for a headphone amp? Would I need an audio interface with them? And would something cheaper than the babyface be sufficient?

For computer I saw the Intel Nuc with an i3 7100U processor, would that be sufficient? I like the fact that it is silent, but I don't want to be limited on polyphony or latency! I guess I would definitely need an audio interface with an Intel Nuc?

Reply by johng

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Re: Home Setup with Intel NUC?

Hi Daniel,

I'm fairly certain that the i3-7100U would be adequate for your needs, and with substantial headroom to spare. I am running a system based on an i3-7100T. This is very similar to the i3-7100U but with a higher maximum clock speed (3.4 GHz versus 2.4GHz).

My system shows a Pianoteq performance index of 120. I use the following Pianoteq settings:

Sample rate: 44100 Hz
Buffer Size: 128 samples (2.9 msec)
Max Polyphony: 256
Multicore Rendering: On

I am running Ubuntu 16.04 and set the CPU so that it always runs at max performance, because the linux CPU governor does not ramp up the CPU speed quickly enough to respond to changes in demand from Pianoteq. Running the CPU this way actually seems to make little difference to overall power consumption (about 2 or 3 watts).

In normal playing, I don't see the CPU usage (on the Pianoteq performance graph) go much above about 20 to 30%.
As a test, I can only max it out by holding down the sustain pedal and performing several consecutive glissandos from top to bottom of the keyboard. That will push it up briefly to 100% but it's obviously not something that will happen in a normal performance !

Performance ratings for the i3-7100U show that it gives something between 66% and 75% the throughput of the i3-7100T, so extrapolating from the above figures it should certainly be a suitable choice.

Last edited by johng (05-10-2018 20:40)

Reply by mcoll

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Re: Home Setup with Intel NUC?

Audient iD14 and iD22 are DACs (audio interfaces), just like the Babyface. All three mentioned before should have very good audio quality and latency. The iD14 headphone output is less powerfull than the iD22, but they both should drive the K701 quite adequately.
I don't own any of the above models currently, but I talked with a few people about the Audients, since I'm considering getting one for the headphone quality and power.
Somebody powered the AKG K701 and Senn HD580 without problem from the iD14. For the same headphones, he found the Steinberg UR22 was underpowered.
Somebody else uses the HD650 with the iD22, again, no problem.
Going by the specs, the Babyface also has enough power through the headphone output, so I'm not sure you'd have to get a headphone amp with any of the interfaces above (and probably others as well).
You also have the option of going for a cheaper interface + headphone amp - I'm not sure if you'd get better quality this way than with one of the options above. I don't expect you would, though.