Topic: Altiverb vs. Pianoteq built-in reverb for recording

Hello everyone,


I have a question on reverb.


I am currently working on a solo piano album, and I am going for a modern sound (if anybody has heard Jon Schmidt of The Piano Guys, that is what I'm looking for).


I've talked to my mastering engineer and he recommends Altiverb.  I've heard some people say that Pianoteq's built-in reverb is absolutely fine, so I am curious which is better (I am currently unable to do a comparison with the free trial of Altiverb, since I don't own an iLok). 


I want this album to be as professional sounding as possible, so any help you could give me is greatly appreciated!


Thanks,

keynote1157

Pianoteq 7 | New York Steinway D, Hamburg Steinway D, Steinway B, Steingraeber E-272, Grotrian Concert Royale, Blüthner Model 1, K2 |
Roland FP-90 | Roland Rubix 22

Re: Altiverb vs. Pianoteq built-in reverb for recording

To my ears PhoenixVerb is probably the best overall, followed by Valhalla Room, followed closely by Altiverb.

I was ready to go with PhoenixVerb but their terms are a little strange and they make you jump through some unreasonable piracy hoops which in the end gave me cold feet (especially for the price). I went with Valhalla Room, but it needs to be tweaked in order to be optimised. This article provides instructions to give you much better realism:

https://valhalladsp.com/2011/05/25/valh...ert-halls/

Pianoteq's new built-in reverb is definitely much improved. It's not quite perfect, but I'm generally satisfied with it. If you make the reverb too heavy it will show a little bit of artificiality. I also would prefer its decay to be a little smoother (less wobbly), but that's more a matter of taste. For my own purposes with Pianoteq I now use the built-in reverb exclusively because when you turn it off (to use a third-party reverb) the mic placement behavior is different than how it used to be in earlier versions. It seems to now disregard mic placement at least to some extent. You probably are looking for a closer mic placement anyway, so that might not be an issue for you.

In the end you'll want to experiment to taste as these things can be quite subjective.

Last edited by NathanShirley (19-07-2018 20:54)

Re: Altiverb vs. Pianoteq built-in reverb for recording

I happen to augment Pianoteq's convolution reverb with Altiverb in a somewhat unusual way.

Although I generally perform live, for mastering purposes, I like to import Pianoteq's audio into Apple Logic Pro X (Version 10.4), and go to work on the audio as follows:

1) Working on the Pianoteq-rendered AUDIO track, I create an aux. bus and place Altiverb 7 into the bus.
2) Depending on the nature of the piano work, and my general mood, I will select from a plate IR (L480), or a studio IR (e.g., Todd AO) or use the Sydney Opera House IR, and then slowly increase the bus volume from negative infinity to a level that I can distinctly recognize the Altiverb effect -- then ....;
3) I BACK OFF the volume of the Aux bus (usually to between -8 to -14dB) so that the Altiverb contribution is noticeably lessened, but not completely gone.

* * * * *

In this manner, I find that Altiverb adds that little something extra, without being overtly reverberant.

Please note that I do this both while listening through headphones (AKG 701's) or studio monitors (B&W Matrix 801 Series II's).  Usually, I find that using headphones only, I tend to over-apply Altiverb to the bus.  In my own experience, I attempt to render a plausible "image" of a grand piano in my mind's eye (as viewed from the side with the lid open), such that the piano is located "between" the speakers without extending beyond the speakers.

Too many times, I find the need to REDUCE the stereo separation in Pianoteq to a value of about 0.40, so as to keep the mental image of the piano -- BETWEEN the B&W 801 speakers (but clearly NOT mono!); otherwise, I find the piano sounds as though it is 12' to 15' long from extending beyond the bounds of the speakers.   Normally, my 801's are spaced about 10 feet apart, and that my listening position is at the apex of an equilateral triangle measuring ~10 feet on a side, so I am sitting about 8.66 feet in front of the Matrix 801 speakers).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joe

P.S.  Of course, this is only a suggestion of what works for Yours Truly.  By all means, I urge you to experiment with various speaker positions and Altiverb settings, etc. to generate what appears to be the most plausible "image" in your own mind's eye as you listen to the playback.

Re: Altiverb vs. Pianoteq built-in reverb for recording

"For my own purposes with Pianoteq I now use the built-in reverb exclusively because when you turn it off (to use a third-party reverb) the mic placement behavior is different than how it used to be in earlier versions. It seems to now disregard mic placement at least to some extent. "

-  I too have found this and find it to be unpredictable from one piano to another, and from one preset to another.  I tend to turn off reverb since I am playing on a real upright piano using its keyboard in a real room and hoping to create a player impression – no external reverb should be, in theory, necessary as my room around me should provide real reverb for me.

"Too many times, I find the need to REDUCE the stereo separation in Pianoteq to a value of about 0.40, so as to keep the mental image of the piano; BETWEEN the B&W 801 speakers (but clearly NOT mono!); otherwise, I find the piano sounds as though it is 12' to 15' long from extending beyond the bounds of the speakers.   Normally, my 801's are spaced about 10 feet apart, and that my listening position is at the apex of an equilateral triangle measuring ~10 feet on a side, so I am sitting about 8.66 feet in front of the Matrix 801 speakers).

- Me as well, Joe.  My speakers are outboard of my piano.  0.40 for stereo width has been the typical setting that I have picked for years in order to match the mental image of where the sound should come from as I strike keys up in the treble and down in the bass ranges.  My speakers are not as far part is yours, but being on either side of the piano makes 0.40 my "magic number".  For those people whose speakers are on top of their keyboard or behind their keyboard, perhaps the stock preset width settings are correct.

- David

- David