Topic: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

Considering ordering this low-cost combo for an ultra-portable Pianoteq setup:

ROCK64 SBC
ROCK64 ESS ES9023 Sabre DAC add-on board

The ROCK64 is comparable to the Raspberry Pi 3, with a faster clock speed at 1.5 GHz and up to 4GB DDR3 RAM. The DAC is a lot less expensive than ones on offer for the Pi. It'll run Debian, which would be my choice of OS if I was to buy this setup. It'd be a dedicated Linux + Pianoteq box.

Any thoughts from our ARM + Pianoteq experts would be appreciated.

3/2 = 5

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

I have no idea, but since posting here is free... I just will tell that in some benchmarks on Youtube Rock64 was several times faster than RPi3.
The only drawback is that the support is somewhat more limited

Last edited by marcos daniel (26-01-2018 20:57)
Pianoteq Pro - Bechstein - Blüthner - Grotrian - K2 - Kremsegg 1 & 2 - Petrof - Steingraeber - Steinway B & D - YC5
Kawai CL35 & MP11

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

marcos daniel wrote:

I have no idea, but since posting here is free... I just will tell that in some benchmarks on Youtube Rock64 was several times faster than RPi3.

Yes, that's no doubt due to the much faster DDR3 RAM vs the Pi's DDR2. CPU is the same with a moderately faster clock speed. I'm going to give the ROCK64 a go - seems like one of the best performance per buck SBC's around.

3/2 = 5

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

SteveLy wrote:

I'm going to give the ROCK64 a go - seems like one of the best performance per buck SBC's around.

My concern with this SBC is the software support. Quite a few have reported poor support, so getting an OS up and running well won't be straight forward.
Also, it doesn't end up quite such good value in the EU.

Last edited by grazie (27-01-2018 13:06)

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

grazie wrote:

My concern with this SBC is the software support. Quite a few have reported poor support, so getting an OS up and running well won't be straight forward.

It will run Debian, so that's a good start. If I was looking for a general purpose SBC, I'd definitely go with the RPi3 for the reasons you've stated. But this will be a single-purpose computer, dedicated to just running Pianoteq, so I'm hopeful. Also the fact that the vendor sells a DAC to go with the main board is promising.
https://youtu.be/ZejkWra-Mfc

3/2 = 5

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

I'm intrigued.
I also wonder about the Asus Tinkerboard.

I have been running Pianoteq on a Raspberry Pi 3 for a few months now. I have had to turn the internal sample rate down from 48K to 36K, and usually get a performance index around 12. All of the Pianoteq instruments sound lovely on my i7 laptop, but only a few are that good on the pi. There is a big gap between a Pi 3 an i5 NUC; I wonder where some of these other ARM boards fall in it.

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

The performance of the different ARM boards has been disappointing. Most of them seem to have a PTQ Performance Index of around 12-15. The Odroid XU4 looked promising but nobody has got it running yet. (FWIW I compared the XU4 to the other CPUs in Mossy’s benchmark thread and it lands around a PTQ PI of around 30).

In the meantime, inexpensive x86 CPUs are faster and keep getting better. The low-end Pentium N4200 has a PTQ PI around 30 and companies like Minix sell N4200 Mini PCs for around USD$300.

It should get interesting in the next few months. Several Mini PCs are scheduled to be released using the Celeron J4105, N4100 & N4000, all of them have similar performance to the N4200 and are priced from under US$200 on up.

Last edited by Groove On (02-04-2018 18:28)

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

Any idea why it's not working on a XU4?

Also,"  (FWIW I compared the XU4 to the other CPUs in Mossy’s benchmark thread and it lands around a PTQ PI of around 30)."

What processors did you compare the  XU4 to?

I don't see any comparable processors in that list.

Last edited by MrRoland (02-04-2018 22:04)

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

MrRoland wrote:

What processors did you compare the XU4 to?

You can compare systems on Geekbench 2.

Here’s a comparison between a MacBook Pro (i3-3227U) and the older XU3 running Ubuntu (same CPU as the XU4).
http://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench2...90/2581032

Last edited by Groove On (03-04-2018 10:07)

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

MrRoland wrote:

Any idea why it's not working on a XU4?

I tried with a friend's XU4, there is an error message, I don't remember exactly, something about RGB

Pianoteq Pro - Bechstein - Blüthner - Grotrian - K2 - Kremsegg 1 & 2 - Petrof - Steingraeber - Steinway B & D - YC5
Kawai CL35 & MP11

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

That's strange,
I run pianoteq on a orangepi pc.
It is running armbian, which is running stable on a XU4 too. So I would imagine it's a minor issue and pianoteq will run on a XU4.
If someone has this particular error message for me I might be able to help.

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

Groove On wrote:
MrRoland wrote:

What processors did you compare the XU4 to?

You can compare systems on Geekbench 2.

Here’s a comparison between a MacBook Pro (i3-3227U) and the older XU3 running Ubuntu (same CPU as the XU4).
http://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench2...90/2581032

Those are interesting numbers.
I might try a XU4.

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

MrRoland wrote:

Any idea why it's not working on a XU4?

See this thread ... https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=5405

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

That's an issue I'm not familiar with, but my first guess would be that the vnc configuration somehow messed up the hdmi configuration.
I had a hard time getting vnc to work properly on my mini pc. I had to create a dummy screen for the vnc setup, but this messed up my main screen.

For my orangepi I use a tiny 5 inch hdmi screen, this worked instantly after setting the right screen resolution.

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

Groove On wrote:

In the meantime, inexpensive x86 CPUs are faster and keep getting better. The low-end Pentium N4200 has a PTQ PI around 30 and companies like Minix sell N4200 Mini PCs for around USD$300.

There are so many dirt cheap corporate off-lease windows desktops on the used market (kijiji, ebay, local resellers) that I can't even justify using any new NUC PC or mini PC, etc. I use a USFF Dell and a SFF HP, both have i5-3570, 8GB DDR3, hard drives and legal win10 licenses for CAD $120 each (under $100USD). Good enough for any general work, VST, and/or Pianoteq.

If you need ultra-small for your application, I get it, but for me I can't waste the money or time to get things working right on an ARM when an old $100 computer will still overperform.

Seems like the only advances made in consumer-level processors are in power consumption, i.e., phones. If / when there is a version of ptq that can run on an old Nexus 5 or similar used phone (although stock Android has terrible audio latency built-in), then things might get interesting (using iGrand on Android is not amazing).

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

What about portability?
I'm taking my equipment with me to a performance so it has to be small and easy to carry. That's why I use a mini pc (T3200, which only cost me 30 euro's second hand) and a arm board.

Taking a desktop pc everywhere is just a no go.

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

MrRoland wrote:

Any idea why it's not working on a XU4?

Pianoteq 6.1.1 works perfectly on an Odroid XU4 with Armbian. It takes some tweaking like building a preemptible kernel and manually setting the core clocks and the core affinity to use the available resources in the best way possible.

I'm running PTQ on a XU4q (the 'quiet' version without a fan) at 44.1k with 96 voices and 2ms latency. This setup is extremely stable and I couldn't be happier.

The XU4 is also significantly faster than the Rock64 or the Tinkerboard. I would also strongly recommend against the Rock64 in particular, because it has a design issue with the power supply that takes some effort to work around for stable operation.

Andreas

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

So, what difference did the preemptive kernel made to the performance?
I use the standard Armbian 5.38 image on my Orangepi pc. I only overclocked it a little and lowered the internal samplerate. I have a 2ms latency, but I can only play presets with max 2 microphones. Others will have performance issues.

The XU4 is on my wish list now, but I hate te fact that the i/os  use 1V8 levels... This makes my touchscreen useless without level shifters.
Fortunately I've got plenty parts lying around, so I'll be able to build some levelshifters.

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

MrRoland wrote:

So, what difference did the preemptive kernel made to the performance?

It makes quite a difference. The shorter time slices and especially the realtime scheduled interrupts allow to get much better performance at lower buffer sizes. I can only highly recommend it. Modern kernels also support the so called rt-basic configuration that does not implement full preemption, but it turns out to be perfectly sufficient for audio.


The XU4 is on my wish list now, but I hate te fact that the i/os  use 1V8 levels... This makes my touchscreen useless without level shifters.
Fortunately I've got plenty parts lying around, so I'll be able to build some levelshifters.

There are HDMI touchscreens that work with the XU4. But I guess you want to use it with what you already have. I don't use any screen at all. I run headless and for configuration I forward the GUI to a remote X-server.

Andreas

Re: Rock64 single board computer + DAC for Pianoteq ?

andreastell wrote:
MrRoland wrote:

Any idea why it's not working on a XU4?

Pianoteq 6.1.1 works perfectly on an Odroid XU4 with Armbian. It takes some tweaking like building a preemptible kernel and manually setting the core clocks and the core affinity to use the available resources in the best way possible.

I'm running PTQ on a XU4q (the 'quiet' version without a fan) at 44.1k with 96 voices and 2ms latency. This setup is extremely stable and I couldn't be happier.

The XU4 is also significantly faster than the Rock64 or the Tinkerboard. I would also strongly recommend against the Rock64 in particular, because it has a design issue with the power supply that takes some effort to work around for stable operation.

Andreas

So, I did buy a odroid-xu4 and after months of trying it I just can't get it to be as stable as it should. Sometimes a single note or chord is delayed enough to hear it.
I have a preemptive kernel, and followed all the recommendations from the Pianoteq readme.

Can you please post your modifications?
Or are you willing to share your image?