Topic: Are the decays too long?

Some of my instruments, such as the D4, sound almost muddled when playing melodies, as if the decay is too long when compared to my real piano and to sampled pianos such as Alicia's Keys and The Grandeur.  While I don't have a sound meter that maps these in a measurable fashion, I watched the tone bars on a 'downloaded to my cellphone' soundmeter as I played my upright Steinway F, Pianoteq's D4, The Grandeur from Native Instruments, as well as Alicia's Keys from NI.  For all but Pianoteq's D4, the bar representing the primary tone when a note is struck appears to have a slower, more linear decay, while the rest of the sound appears to decay in a more exponential fashion.  For Pianoteq's D4, most all of the tones tend to decay in a similar fashion, more linearly.

I have just uploaded both my 'D4 Player2" and "D4 Player2 - Decay adjusted" presets.  The second preset has a shortened Soundboard Impedance and a longer Direct Sound Duration.  See what you think.  (Of note, my keyboard is soft so my volume curve is aggressive.  Also, my Delay and EQ and Reverb are off, as that sounds best at my upright piano.)

Any other approaches to achieve this characteristic?

- David

P.S.  My setup also has quite the bell-like resonance for the D4 from C4 to F4 - do others hear this?

- David

Re: Are the decays too long?

Funny, I find the opposite to be true. When I match the volume and dynamic range (as best as I can) to my Steinway M (only an M, not a D) -- my piano sustain is much longer than Pianoteq's D. I find myself over-pedaling with Pianoteq vs. playing real pianos.

On every built-in sampled keyboard I've ever tried, the sustain is always ridiculously short. With Pianoteq it's much, much closer.

Re: Are the decays too long?

no, decays are not too long. either your phrasing is off, or you are simply using too much pedal.

Re: Are the decays too long?

Well, he seems to be saying that the decays of some partials are too long, muddying the sound. I think he's saying that in other instruments, the fundamental lasts a long time, but the other partials die away faster, but all of the partials in the D4 decay at a similar, slow rate, although the exact decay time differs from partial to partial.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (24-08-2016 07:33)

Re: Are the decays too long?

Yes, that is what I meant to say:

With the real piano and the sampled pianos which I have observed, the partials decay at notably faster rates than the fundamental tone. 

With the Modartt instruments, the partials and the fundamental tone decay at approximately the same rate.  This contributes to a more muddled sound.

I am not using pedal for this.

- David

- David

Re: Are the decays too long?

dklein wrote:

With the Modartt instruments, the partials and the fundamental tone decay at approximately the same rate.

Sorry but I have to disagree here, the partials of the piano models in Pianoteq decay all at various rates, depending on the note and the frequency of the partial (and also on the unison width), and these rates are adjusted in such a way to be as close as possible from the original instrument that served as model. This adjustement is made very carefully and takes us quite a lot of time.

Re: Are the decays too long?

Well, a big part of my comparison is that is comparing "apples to oranges", since I have a Steinway F, and yet I am comparing it to the Pianoteq Steinways D and B, as well as to the Native Instruments sampled Steinway D and Yamaha C3 Neo.  I was following an observation that I gleaned from an imprecise use of mobile phone sound meter applications, curious if this explained some of the aural behaviors that I noted.

Thanks, Phillipe, for your input and for your decades of hard work in the field.  It's great fun to virtually flip from one piano to the next, easier than walking down the sales line of a huge piano showroom!

David

- David

Re: Are the decays too long?

You are welcome