Topic by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Topic: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

I have a Casio PX-160, which is a great MIDI controller piano keyboard for the price and is my default controller for Pianoteq. The key action is a big improvement over my Yamaha P-140 (and even more so on any recent Yamaha GHS action keyboard, e.g., P-115, IMHO).

But one thing the PX-160 and rest of the Casio Privia / PX series are supposedly lacking is progressive sustain (Edit: or so I've read; see S_G_B's post below about PX-850 supporting progressive/continuous sustain control). The default sustain pedal input only accommodates an on/off switch. The only other option is the made-for-cabinet 3-pedal unit, which offers half pedalling. But even that only gives 3-levels (2 discrete steps): full-off, half-on, full-on --- not good enough for realistic pedalling. (Aside: The PX-160 and all the non-cabinet PX models come with the cheap and most unsatisfying SP-3 foot-switch. At the very least one needs to upgrade to an aftermarket piano-like switching pedal. I was using an inexpensive UXL pedal till I got progressive sustain sorted.)

Here is the least expensive effective solution I found to remedy this: using the Yamaha FC3 pedal (with continuous analog output; came with my P-140) with this $49 pedal-to-USB-MIDI adapter: Audiofront MIDI Expression. For Windows/Mac users the adapter comes with software that allows you to set it up (set the type of pedal, adjust range/response etc).

For Linux users (including myself) there is no software, so one is stuck with whatever the adapter thinks the pedal is and the MIDI controller No. it assigns. It registers the FC3 as an expression pedal with output to MIDI controller 7 and the MIDI levels run backwards from 115 at full-off to 0 at full-on. But all this can be fixed up in Pianoteq by going to Options->MIDI, assigning MIDI Controller 7 to "Pedal 4 [Sustain Pedal]", switching the range from the default min=0, max=1.00 to min=1.00, max=0, and tweaking the sustain pedal response curve in the main interface (or running the Calibration Assistant). And I also still have the old on/off sustain pedal coming in on controller 64 to assign to something else useful.

The setup works great. Pedalling is a lot more realistic, and Pianoteq seems to model the position and movement of the pedal very well in terms of amount of sustain and pedal noise. (The FC3 unit itself is a bit noisy though: creaks and clunks. Mine's about 10 y.o. but had little use. Might have to pull it to bits, tighten things up and give it some lube.)

Last edited by SteveLy (25-01-2016 15:02)
3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website

Reply by varpa

  • Avatar
  • varpa
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
  • Registered: 26-02-2011
  • Posts: 165

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

You might be able to run the Windows config program in linux using wine.   wine is sort of of a Windows emulator for linux.

varpa's Website

Reply by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

Thanks varpa. I know about Wine but it tends to fail at interfacing with external hardware.. And, I would not want the MIDI signal going through Wine. However, the manual for this Audiofront pedal adapter says that one can also reprogram the device itself, which will remember the new settings without needing the software any more. So I might try that using a friend's Windows PC to reprogram it if I need to. For now it's only for Pianoteq, where it works flawlessly after tweaking a few parameters.

I must say the more I use Pianoteq the more impressed I am with the attention to detail in it. Very well designed and functional with nothing superfluous or gimmicky. Very unlike most commercial software.

Edit: Indeed, the Windows software when run in Wine does not see the device being plugged into USB and freezes up (needs to be xkill-ed). But like I said no big deal, it works fine without any software in Linux.

Last edited by SteveLy (24-01-2016 12:46)
3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website

Reply by S_G_B

  • Avatar
  • S_G_B
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Winnipeg
  • Registered: 29-11-2015
  • Posts: 30

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

I have a PX850. It does continuous sustain pedal wonderfully with its built-in 3-pedal unit playing into Pianoteq. I just checked the P160 manual online, and Casio claims it also will do "half-pedal" with the optional SP-33 (http://support.casio.com/storage/en/man...-1A_EN.pdf). I believe this is true of the whole Privia line.

S_G_B's Website

Reply by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

Thanks for the clarification. I'll edit my original post to avoid misinforming anyone.

I was going to get the 3-pedal unit and then adapt it for use without a cabinet, but then I read from other users that one only gets three levels: 0, 64, 127 and nothing in between. So it does do half-pedal but nothing between full-off and half-on, and half-on an full-on, or so I've read. (I now cannot find where I read it unfortunately.) Maybe the PX-850/860 being the top of the range of the cabinet models is different or maybe I was misinformed. But in the end I'm glad I got the adapter rather than having to modify the 3-pedal unit for use without the cabinet.

3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website

Reply by cpcohen

  • Avatar
  • cpcohen
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 15-04-2013
  • Posts: 79

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

SteveLy wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. I'll edit my original post to avoid misinforming anyone.

I was going to get the 3-pedal unit and then adapt it for use without a cabinet, but then I read from other users that one only gets three levels: 0, 64, 127 and nothing in between. So it does do half-pedal but nothing between full-off and half-on, and half-on an full-on, or so I've read. (I now cannot find where I read it unfortunately.) Maybe the PX-850/860 being the top of the range of the cabinet models is different or maybe I was misinformed. But in the end I'm glad I got the adapter rather than having to modify the 3-pedal unit for use without the cabinet.

You might have read it in one of my posts about the limits of the SP-33 / PX-350 combination !   The mid-level "64" value is controlled by a menu option in the PX-350, but you get to pick _one_ "half-pedal" value. 

I'm pretty sure that the PX-850 uses a different 3-pedal unit.

Thanks for the suggestion of the Yamaha FC3 + Audiofront solution.  I have a MIDI Solutions "pedal controller" already;  I'll have to try it out with an FC3.

.     Charles

Reply by TimN

  • Avatar
  • TimN
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 29-07-2015
  • Posts: 96

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but I have the same interest: enabling the continuous sustain pedal features of Pianoteq. The Yamaha FC3 pedal seems to have been discontinued and replaced with the FC3A.  It's not clear from the Yamaha product description that the FC3A is still a continuous pedal...it sounds like a 2-step pedal, at lower price point.  Does anyone here know? I'm seeking a continuous piano-style sustain pedal to connect to Pianoteq through my Logidy EMI3 MIDI device, which supports expression pedals as MIDI controllers.

Are there alternative piano-type continuous sustain pedals on the market?
Thanks!
Tim

Reply by beakybird

  • Avatar
  • beakybird
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 29-03-2014
  • Posts: 209

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

TimN wrote:

Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but I have the same interest: enabling the continuous sustain pedal features of Pianoteq. The Yamaha FC3 pedal seems to have been discontinued and replaced with the FC3A.  It's not clear from the Yamaha product description that the FC3A is still a continuous pedal...it sounds like a 2-step pedal, at lower price point.  Does anyone here know? I'm seeking a continuous piano-style sustain pedal to connect to Pianoteq through my Logidy EMI3 MIDI device, which supports expression pedals as MIDI controllers.

Are there alternative piano-type continuous sustain pedals on the market?
Thanks!
Tim

The FC3A does progressive half-pedaling. I purchased one with the MIDI Expressions unit. Together, they work very well. However, in real playing, I cannot appreciate any improvement over the static half pedaling of the Casio SP3 unit, and the FC3A and MIDI Expressions are collecting dust.

My recommendation: If you have a Casio and the SP3, and you are overall satisfied with the feel of it, keep it. If you don't have the SP3 or a half pedal, you should get the FC3A or comparable model + the MIDI Solutions device.

Pianoteq 6 Std, Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, YC5, Hohner, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Xenyx Q802USB, Yamaha HS8 monitors, Audio Technica
ATH-M50x headphones.

Reply by TimN

  • Avatar
  • TimN
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 29-07-2015
  • Posts: 96

Re: FYI: Progressive sustain pedal for Casio PX or any keyboard + Pianoteq

beakybird wrote:

The FC3A does progressive half-pedaling. I purchased one with the MIDI Expressions unit. Together, they work very well. However, in real playing, I cannot appreciate any improvement over the static half pedaling of the Casio SP3 unit, and the FC3A and MIDI Expressions are collecting dust.

My recommendation: If you have a Casio and the SP3, and you are overall satisfied with the feel of it, keep it. If you don't have the SP3 or a half pedal, you should get the FC3A or comparable model + the MIDI Solutions device.

Thanks, beakybird! This is helpful information. Strange that I was unable to find any tech details about the FC3A pedal beyond the marketing description, along with its weight and dimensions.