Topic by AlexS

  • Avatar
  • AlexS
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-03-2016
  • Posts: 77

Topic: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

I know there is a separate forum for this, but I don't need just a general velocity curve. I would like to know opinion of some person that  possess this Casio rig AND at the same time have some decent experience playing on real acoustic pianos.

In your opinion, what is the most "authentic" velocity curve for this Casio keyboards that emulates sensitivity of real piano's keyboard the best? I've been trying to adjust my curve since the first days of using Pianoteq, but still can't be satisfied with it. For some pieces it can feel just ok, but for others it's too quiet (so you need to put a lot of impact in your palms), or loud (whatever I try I just can't play it smooth enough so it would sound quiet enough). I would like to have some reference from a real world so I could develop my touch correctly.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Last edited by AlexS (10-06-2016 23:38)

Reply by beakybird

  • Avatar
  • beakybird
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 29-03-2014
  • Posts: 204

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

AlexS wrote:

I know there is a separate forum for this, but I don't need just a general velocity curve. I would like to know opinion of some person that  possess this Casio rig AND at the same time have some decent experience playing on real acoustic pianos.

In your opinion, what is the most "authentic" velocity curve for this Casio keyboards that emulates sensitivity of real piano's keyboard the best? I've been trying to adjust my curve since the first days of using Pianoteq, but still can't be satisfied with it. For some pieces it can feel just ok, but for others it's too quiet (so you need to put a lot of impact in your palms), or loud (whatever I try I just can't play it smooth enough so it would sound quiet enough). I would like to have some reference from a real world so I could develop my touch correctly.

Thank you in advance for your help.

I'm not an expert. What works for me is to have a normal line that starts on 4,0. So pull the node at 0,0 to 4,0 or 5,0 and that's it. This way, it will be easier to get the ppp but you won't have to be pounding the keyboard to get loud.

Pianoteq 6 Std, Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, YC5, Hohner, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Xenyx Q802USB, Yamaha HS8 monitors, Audio Technica
ATH-M50x headphones.

Reply by cpcohen

  • Avatar
  • cpcohen
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 15-04-2013
  • Posts: 79

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

And I use a different curve from beakybird, for my PX-350 (should be the same as the PX-150):

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...39#p931339

There are a bunch of other possibilities -- the Casio PX . . . models are quite popular as Pianoteq keyboards.

My guess, if you can't find a "universal" curve that will take you from "pp" to "ff" smoothly:

. . . You need to learn to play better.

A question:

. . . Can you play an acoustic piano over as wide a range as you expect Pianoteq to deliver?

and another:

. . . Have you experimented with the "Dynamic range" setting in Pianoteq (it's available in all versions) ?


.      Charles

Reply by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

I used the Calibration Assistant and then manually tweaked it to get it right for my playing style. Make sure MIDI (go to Options->MIDI) is set to "Hi-res CC#88" instead of the default "Standard MIDI".

3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website

Reply by AlexS

  • Avatar
  • AlexS
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-03-2016
  • Posts: 77

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

Hi, guys. Thank you all for spending your time on this.

SteveLy wrote:

I used the Calibration Assistant and then manually tweaked it to get it right for my playing style. Make sure MIDI (go to Options->MIDI) is set to "Hi-res CC#88" instead of the default "Standard MIDI".

I did this too, but the problem with this approach is that I'll get curve that feels "appropriate" for my undeveloped hands (I'm on my first year of learning). This doesn't seems like a right thing.

SteveLy wrote:

Can you play an acoustic piano over as wide a range as you expect Pianoteq to deliver?

I can't get in touch with some acoustic piano, unfortunately, that's why I need advice from somebody both playing acoustic and this Casio keyboards

SteveLy wrote:

And I use a different curve from beakybird, for my PX-350 (should be the same as the PX-150):

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic … 39#p931339

There are a bunch of other possibilities -- the Casio PX . . . models are quite popular as Pianoteq keyboards.

Yes, I checked specs before, they seem to have the same mechanics. Also, answering your question from that topic - no, you don't need stronger hands, this Casio mechanics seems to not be able to produce more than 110-115 velocity. And to get anything above 100 you'll need to hit keyboard with a hammer ))
Also, you say there that you set sensitivity of the keyboard itself to 3. My experiments showed that it doesn't affect anything when you are using it as a midi keyboard, i.e. it seems to just affect Casio's internal "velocity curve" used for internal sound. Did you test it for yourself?

Reply by AlexS

  • Avatar
  • AlexS
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-03-2016
  • Posts: 77

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

Here is how my curve looks like atm:
Velocity = [6, 14, 22, 33, 41, 51, 58, 65, 73, 84, 95; 0, 5, 15, 33, 46, 58, 71, 89, 105, 117, 126]
http://rgho.st/72qwcX2kF
It reaches maximum volume at around 100

Last edited by AlexS (11-06-2016 11:20)

Reply by AlexS

  • Avatar
  • AlexS
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-03-2016
  • Posts: 77

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

AlexS wrote:

Also, you say there that you set sensitivity of the keyboard itself to 3. My experiments showed that it doesn't affect anything when you are using it as a midi keyboard, i.e. it seems to just affect Casio's internal "velocity curve" used for internal sound. Did you test it for yourself?

I probably tested it wrong before.. Now I see that at least switching off sensitivity produces expected result - it starts to register Midi note on events with the same velocity all the time.

Reply by AlexS

  • Avatar
  • AlexS
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-03-2016
  • Posts: 77

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

SteveLy, I've given a try to your setup, and surprisingly it feels a lot like the one I've come up with in the end. Though I'm using sensitivity level of "2" at Casio (which is default), but my curve in PTQ is much steeper than yours, so it sort of compensates for it this way.

May I ask do you also have experience playing on real acoustic instrument? Do you think your setup mirrors its sensitivity well? What disturbs me in both yours and mine curves are 2 facts:

1) When I play some sequence with my relaxed hand, without adding any forced impact to my palm, I'm sticking to around of 25-30 midi velocity. So, to reach even "forte" volume level I need to add some significant effort to my fingers (still I can reach it without employing help from my wrists or even using whole my hand). To reach "ff-fff" I need to rise my palm to be able to accumulate enough impact. Is it how playing real piano feels? Are their keys that "rigid"? Or may be you hand is much stronger than mine?
2) Still, even taking in account what I said above, it's very hard to me to reach "pp-ppp" levels. Even with the softest touch I can produce I can't repeat it consistently several times in a row, it's very tough to achieve. Again, is this how real piano feels?

Last edited by AlexS (12-06-2016 01:24)

Reply by beakybird

  • Avatar
  • beakybird
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 29-03-2014
  • Posts: 204

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

If you're having trouble getting ppp and fff, try this Velocity = [4, 121; 1, 127] and increase the dynamic range a little.

Pianoteq 6 Std, Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, YC5, Hohner, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Xenyx Q802USB, Yamaha HS8 monitors, Audio Technica
ATH-M50x headphones.

Reply by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Re: Need help with velocity curves for Casio px-150/160

AlexS wrote:

SteveLy, I've given a try to your setup, and surprisingly it feels a lot like ...

You've misattributed quotes to me in previous posts and I've never published any setup / velocity parameters either. You must be talking about someone else.

FWIW, here are a couple of curves I use with my PX-160 (whose internal velocity is left at medium, the factory preset you get when you turn the thing on):
Velocity = [0, 1, 10, 25, 53, 90, 120, 127; 0, 0, 4, 31, 64, 96, 127, 127]
Velocity = [0, 18, 42, 69, 93, 110, 127; 0, 9, 33, 70, 102, 119, 127] (this is my default)

ps. Don't worry about "undeveloped" hands. You'll get more proficient with practice. Tweaking the velocity curve to your liking will not hurt your development as a musician. I'm old school so I still believe in practicing on acoustic pianos if you want to learn piano, but there are plenty of fantastic young players out there who learnt mostly on keyboards and inexpensive DPs like the PX-150.

Last edited by SteveLy (13-06-2016 02:21)
3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website