Topic: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

Hi, everybody.

It's me again I've spent some time now configuring and experimenting, also learning how to handle my piano a bit Now it's time for the final showdown "Pianoteq vs my high expectations of it" I'm well prepared now, and ready to provide my current settings: link
...as well as a record of a certain piece I've been learning all that time to show you how it sounds in my Pianoteq. Please bear with my horrible playing for a little while

My outmost goal now is to achieve sound as close to the one can be heard in this video (you can watch without downloading): link

So far, my closest results had been achieved with this configuration:

  • Model: K2

  • Preset: Dreamy

  • Mint: 0.20-0.30 (it's just sounds more authentic and sort of richer when it set around this level)

  • Curve: standard "Moderately Slow Keyboard"

  • Effects: everything left at default, only "Reverb" preset changed to "Medium Hall"

  • Sound processing and output: internal sound card + pair of "studio" headphones for ~100$

Here is the result produced by Pianoteq's "Export to wav" feature, using settings you can see on picture provided above: link

It's not bad, still, while I don't have that great hearing ability, but even I can spot right away that sound in the reference video is WAY richer. And to reach even this somewhat lesser "richness of sound" I must use this reverb preset, i.e. sound produced by clean model itself can't be compared with it at all, it sounds way too simplistic when I use "Clean studio" reverb preset instead: link

So, my Pianoteq is able to produce similar sound only with huge amount of equalizing.

I'm lacking experience/knowledge to point out how exactly it's richer, though. Thus I don't know what setting of Pianoteq I should tweak to get similar sound with preset with lesser equalizing, like that " Clean studio" one.

Could somebody more experienced take this midi, apply the same basic settings I mentioned, and then find out required set of adjustments one need to apply to achieve almost the same sound on Pianoteq? You can use ANY model present in Pianoteq.

To make things easier, you are not limited to Stage I'm using (still let's not resort to using Pro, it's not that affordable), and at least could you also try not to use reverb presets changing original sound that much as "Medium Hall" does? It doesn't appear to me the room in the video is THAT huge and that much affects original sound of piano. So I expect Pianoteq be able to produce similar sound by sheer model capabilities, not by some equalizer features.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who will be able to find some time to spend on this.

Last edited by AlexS (02-06-2016 01:05)

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

...and just just for reference, here is the same midi, but now played my Model B model with a "Gentle" preset (all other settings are the same as for K2 from before).

Medium Hall reverb
Clean Studio reverb

I don't own it so some notes may be missing, still it's the most recent and more praised piano model Pianoteq offers. But, it also fails to close on the sound you can hear in the reference video.

I still hope that it's my inexperience that prevents me from configuring it right. Any help or advice are appreciated.

Last edited by AlexS (02-06-2016 00:44)

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

AlexS wrote:

...and just just for reference, here is the same midi, but now played my Model B model with a "Gentle" preset (all other settings are the same as for K2 from before).

Medium Hall reverb
Clean Studio reverb

I don't own it so some notes may be missing, still it's the most recent and more praised piano model Pianoteq offers. But, it also fails to close on the sound you can hear in the reference video.

I still hope that it's my inexperience that prevents me from configuring it right. Any help or advice is appreciated.


To me, a certain piano sound tends to be best for certain musical compositions or styles.  There is no one perfect piano for all styles.  This is one feature that makes Pianoteq so desirable.   There is a lot of choice, with a lot of possibilities.  Try learning to tune an acoustic, and your will learn a lot about the many reasons Pianoteq is such a great instrument.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

GRB wrote:

To me, a certain piano sound tends to be best for certain musical compositions or styles.  There is no one perfect piano for all styles.  This is one feature that makes Pianoteq so desirable.   There is a lot of choice, with a lot of possibilities.  Try learning to tune an acoustic, and your will learn a lot about the many reasons Pianoteq is such a great instrument.

I accept that possibility, of course. So my request should be uderstood as such: could somebody much more experienced tweak ANY piano model in Pianoteq in such way that it started to sound like the one in the video? I expect to learn a lot from a mere list of tweaks to settings that person used to achieve that. I think that may give me much more experience than a thousands words of manual

Last edited by AlexS (02-06-2016 00:48)

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

AlexS wrote:
GRB wrote:

To me, a certain piano sound tends to be best for certain musical compositions or styles.  There is no one perfect piano for all styles.  This is one feature that makes Pianoteq so desirable.   There is a lot of choice, with a lot of possibilities.  Try learning to tune an acoustic, and your will learn a lot about the many reasons Pianoteq is such a great instrument.

I accept that possibility, of course. So my request should be uderstood as such: could somebody much more experienced tweak ANY piano model in Pianoteq in such way that it started to sound like the one in the video? I expect to learn a lot from a mere list of tweaks to settings that person used to achieve that. I think that may give me much more experience than a thousands words of manual


I'm sorry.  Where is the video?

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

Here is the direct link (you can watch without downloading): http://rgho.st/7c62jJTtz
Aren't you able to see links I left in my opening post? They are rendered ok by my browser.

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

Alex, the rather ambient recording in that video *does* actually contribute quite a bit to the perceived richness in the sound. The instrument seems to be captured from quite some distance in a rather spacious and reverberant environment, and all that interaction (between the source sound and the room) does add significantly to the complexity and richness of the recorded audio.
That same instrument in a smaller and drier space will generate a completely different and, to your ears anyway, possibly less rich sound.
All this to say that you actually *do* need to bring reverb — and quite a bit of it — into your attempts at creating that sound. WIthout reverb, you’ll never get close (or ‘distant’, which is part of what ‘close’ in this particular case means).

Secondly, and I’m sorry to have to say this, but the contents of that midi-file aren't really of the quality that would make any instrument produce a 'rich sound'. Sound begins, in no small measure, with the way an instrument is played, and unfortunately, the ‘playing’ in that midi-file lacks rather a lot of what is required to bring out the best in Pianoteq. There’s no real coherent performance, no pedalling, no dynamics to speak of …
I'm pretty sure that if you were somehow able to play (or get access to) a more pianistically driven performance, you'll find it a lot easier to also get nearer to the sound you're after.

_

Last edited by Piet De Ridder (02-06-2016 09:49)

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

Hi, Piet De Ridder

My playing definitely should suck, it's been half a year since I started to learn piano And I can easily believe that apartment  could contribute a lot to the richness of sound, I just wasn't sure HOW exactly LOT (as I said before, I have zero experience with a live acoustic pianos).

But it's hard for me to believe that correct play-style may correspond to the difference between sound that can be heard with "Clean Studio" reverb preset and this video. Apatment's resonance capabilities is still more sound explanation.

And the part about using pedals also an interesting suggestion. Though, I'm using original sheet this person in the video provided, and it says nothing about using pedal in this particular piece. Or is it goes without saying, like something most pianists do to better the way how they sound?

Thank you for spending your time analyzing the issue.

Update:
Another thing I've thought about is how I should handle reverb and chorus effects features my keyboard has. They are enabled by default and set to some moderate levels. Will effects they produce also somehow be coded into produced midi stream and meddle with chorus and reverb effects Pianoteq simulate itself? Should I always disable these features at my keyboard? Or, in contrary, have them enabled as it's actually will make sound "richer" too?

Last edited by AlexS (02-06-2016 13:02)

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

You were right, just simply putting sustain pedal half way down (my simple gear doesn't allow for full range of its positions) make it sounds significantly "richer" and closer to original.

Last edited by AlexS (02-06-2016 14:29)

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

One of my guilty pleasures is to play Pianoteq with the sympathetic resonance cranked most of if not all the way up. I love that immersive complex sound that is so over the top that you cannot get it from acoustic instruments. Also the energy and inertia and few other settings, I very much enjoy pushing them beyond what is realistic.

3/2 = 5

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

SteveLy wrote:

One of my guilty pleasures is to play Pianoteq with the sympathetic resonance cranked most of if not all the way up. I love that immersive complex sound that is so over the top that you cannot get it from acoustic instruments. Also the energy and inertia and few other settings, I very much enjoy pushing them beyond what is realistic.

Unfortunately, I only have Stage. So my only option is a combination of model preset, equalizer and some effects/reverb. But it seems that no ready reverb preset suites my tastes: small hall is not rich in terms of reverb enough, and medium/large hall are TOO rich )) I'll probably will need to create my own reverb preset. And also adding a pedal is a great option. I don't know how to use it, so I just keep sustain pedal half-way down (Casio allows for one midway position of it), and it indeed gives me MUCH more beautiful overtones, why still don't distort sound too much, like medium/large hall reverb presets do.

When I created this topic I thought that piano has enough capabilities to produce a rich, reverberating, live sound on its own. But it seems I was wrong and room plays even bigger role in it than piano itself. And I also totally overlooked the fact that Pianoteq may imply that you are using some external speakers to play the sound, so your own room can participate in the whole process. As I'm using headphones, I must add reverb artificially for it to sound naturally.

Re: Achieving truely rich and colorful sound in Pianoteq

You can change the pedal response curve in Stage and tune it to taste. You don't have to actually depress the physical pedal to achieve the half (or quarter etc) pedal effect while playing normally. Just click the left-right arrows (triangles) at the top corners of what is by default the VELOCITY panel, till the heading reads PEDAL instead of VELOCITY. Then using the mouse pull up the left hand side of the pedal curve to whatever suits. Read the user manual for more info.

3/2 = 5