Topic: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

I'm thinking about buying a Kawai VPC1 keyboard (no internal sounds, but a wooden key action based on a grand piano's, and MIDI information sent by USB or MIDI to a computer or external tone-producing hardware).

I've been reading a lot of reviews and looking at YouTube videos about the VPC1, and they are overwhelmingly positive. However, I have found a few negatives in buyers' comments that have caused me to wonder about this keyboard controller, so I was hoping to hear from a few users of the Kawai VPC1, which might also help others interested in purchasing the VPC1.

Here are a few negative comments about the VPC1

- Two of my black keys are tilted to the left as the unit came new. It was not damaged in the transport. The box was in good condition and wrapped very well. It looks like the wooden keys were either cut imprecisely or mounted a little off. I am living with it.

- The gaps between the white keys are not consistent through out the keyboard.

- The black keys are not finished all the way down. So when you press the white exposing the roots of the blacks, you feel the raw coarse unfinished wood of the blacks. Very unusual. Haven't seen this on any other keyboard.

And here is a YouTube video that talks about and displays a few faults found with a used (but in supposedly good condition) VPC1, including keys that have loud audible taps, inconsistent spacing between keys (moreso than one would expect in a well-maintained wooden keyboard action), and adjacent keys that vary in height (a few white keys are not in the same horizontal plane)

http://youtu.be/WGv6OSi35x0

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (08-03-2016 21:51)
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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

If I remamber well there was already very good topic, about Kawau VPC1, in this forum.


http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=2815 


By the way, I would like to ask people here what is better, in terms of emulate a acoustic piano action, feeling of the wooden heys and hammer, VPC1 or a true Rhodes piano action ?

Last edited by Beto-Music (08-03-2016 23:14)

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

@Beto-Music -- I have played several of the Rhodes instruments and bought a Rhodes Mark II years ago. I was disappointed and frustrated by the crude wooden action, which is slow (not very responsive to rapid finger movements such as repeating notes) and clumsy. Modern digital keyboards and software sampled or modeled Rhodes give the best of the sounds possible with a Rhodes piano, while enabling one to trigger those sounds with a much better keyboard, the various actions of which have improved greatly over the last 20 years or so. Just my opinion--

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (08-03-2016 23:08)
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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Thanks Stephen.
Check the VPC1 topic I refer  :   http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=2815

Evil Dragon once said he played in a Rhodes piano that have very fast action, and posted a mp3 of a extremely fast repetition recorded in a Rhodes. Not sure what model was, but based in what you said I think it was a modern and faster model.

How can VPC1 be very fast if it don't even have true scapment?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

@Beto-Music -- I have played several of the Rhodes instruments and bought a Rhodes Mark II years ago. I was disappointed and frustrated by the crude wooden action, which is slow (not very responsive to rapid finger movements such as repeating notes) and clumsy. Modern digital keyboards and software sampled or modeled Rhodes give the best of the sounds possible with a Rhodes piano, while enabling one to trigger those sounds with a much better keyboard, the various actions of which have improved greatly over the last 20 years or so. Just my opinion--

Last edited by Beto-Music (08-03-2016 23:25)

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Beto-Music wrote:

How can VPC1 be very fast if it don't even have true scapment?

Apparently (from images, videos and text from the Internet) the VPC1 action does have a simple mechanical "let-off" at the rear of the wooden key lever that decouples the hammer from the key like an escapement does, but the action's responsiveness to rapid trills and repeated notes is primarily as a result of its three velocity sensors per key. (Just from what I have learned so far.)

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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

I tried 2 sensors controllers/DP and they had no limit to velocity, or at least no limit to what a human could perform in terms of velocirties.

VPC1 it's fine, but the left-off it's not true scapment, cause it just make the "click"/"tic" feeling, and do not put the hammer to rest.

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

How can VPC1 be very fast if it don't even have true scapment?

Apparently (from images, videos and text from the Internet) the VPC1 action does have a simple mechanical "let-off" at the rear of the wooden key lever that decouples the hammer from the key like an escapement does, but the action's responsiveness to rapid trills and repeated notes is primarily as a result of its three velocity sensors per key. (Just from what I have learned so far.)

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Beto-Music wrote:

VPC1 it's fine, but the left-off it's not true scapment

No, but it does disconnect the hammer from the key, which does not tie the motion of one strictly to the other, and the 2nd and 3rd velocity sensor register smaller movements in the key (a half-distance keypress for example), like a traditional escapement allows.

Just from curiosity, I looked at and read about the double-escapement action of a modern grand piano here--

http://www.piano.christophersmit.com/actionDetail.html

--and it is amazing from a mechanical point of view; truly impressive.

The VPC1 action cannot compare with the complexity or functions of a real acoustic grand action, but it wouldn't need to do so it seems, in order to fulfill its purpose of being responsive to the player's touch and rapid movements. I'm anxious to try the action of the Kawai VPC1, but am unlikely to find one within driving distance, so if I continue to be interested, I may need to buy one sight unseen I suppose.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (09-03-2016 20:28)
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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

VPC1 it's fine, but the left-off it's not true scapment

No, but it does disconnect the hammer from the key, which does not tie the motion of one strictly to the other, and the 2nd and 3rd velocity sensor register smaller movements in the key (a half-distance keypress for example), like a traditional escapement allows. (At least to the extent of my understanding of the subject.)

I'm anxious to try the action of the Kawai VPC1, but am unlikely to find one within driving distance and if I continue to be interested, may need to buy one sight unseen I suppose.

I have had the VPC1 for 2.5 years, and I love it. If I were buying something new today, I'd go for the MP11 as it has even better action than the VPC1 (although it costs about $950 more). It's also a complete stage piano that has much more to offer than a simple midi controller, if you're interested in its bells and whistles.

Maybe I can find someone to buy my VPC1 to offset the cost of me upgrading.

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

tfishbein82 wrote:

Maybe I can find someone to buy my VPC1 to offset the cost of me upgrading.

I'd be interested but I assume you are not in Europe alas.

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

I have Kawai VPC1 and there is nothing wrong with it. It is a beautiful instrument. It has everything for piano players. Dont expect that has a golden keys for money you give, but it worth every peny. Try to find similar quality in other brands for that money, not even close.

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

If you read enough online reviews/comments on a popular product there is bound to be the odd negative one. I would not worry about it. If you're buying new and/or from a dealer then especially: any unlikely potential issues will be dealt with under warranty. The VPC1 and the MP11 are as good as piano action gets in a MIDI controller. (The guy in the video obviously bought a badly treated beaten up used unit. Maybe better avoid that dealer..?)

Last edited by SteveLy (17-03-2016 14:27)
3/2 = 5

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

SteveLy wrote:

The guy in the video obviously bought a badly treated beaten up used unit. Maybe better avoid that dealer..?

Thank you Steve for your comments. Yes, I believe that Guitar Center (the dealer here in the U.S.) rents equipment, and I'm thinking someone rented that VPC1 and certainly got "his money's worth" from the instrument, perhaps spilling beer on the keyboard, breaking a guitar over the keys or case, etc.

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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Alais, although I love the touch and feel of the VPC-1, my complaint is, that after less than 1 year, I already have considerable wear of the white plastic covering on the most used keys ( the middle octave).
And I do not play the whole day, and i I am also careful about having too long fingernails........

In contrast, my old Clavinova after 10 years had less wear!!

Th original footcontroller has already been subject to critisicm here, beacuse of the cheap potmeter in the sustain  pedal, for which I got a spare one form Kawai, but of the same inferior quality. I guess its actually a Fatar, which is known for its bad pots.....

THis could have been better!

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

@geert -- Thank you for your comments, Geert. Key surface wear would certainly be a concern. The plastic coating on my Yamaha keyboard (a CP5) seems very durable and shows no signs of wear after several years of use. I hope that Kawai improves their digital/MIDI/USB line of keyboards.

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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Hi all,

My (now grandson's) VPC1 has died. I tried a new fuse but it still won't power up. Not sure whether to try and get it fixed or sell it for parts depending on how much repairs would set me back as it's not under warranty.

Anyone else experienced this problem? Is there a problem with the power pack etc.?

I'd be grateful for any advice,

Kindest Regards,

Chris

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

geert: I had the same problem with my ES7 after less than 3 years.  Kawai acknowledged this has happened to a few users, but only a few.  They seemed to blame it on the users' fingers causing a chemical reaction. After some negotiation, the keys were replaced free of charge but Kawai made it clear that this was a one-off deal.  I have been happy with Kawai over the years with an RX2 and now the ES7, so don't like to be negative, but this is, it seems to me, a design/manufacturing fault.  I have over 60 years' ecperience of playing acoustic pianos of various sorts, uprights and grands, and my fingers have never had this effect on keys before.

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

. . . might be a good idea to keep crustaceans away from that VPC-1 as those secretions could be harmful

(please forgive me Sigasa - I just couldn't resist!)

Lanny

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

LTECpiano wrote:

. . . might be a good idea to keep crustaceans away from that VPC-1 as those secretions could be harmful

(please forgive me Sigasa - I just couldn't resist!)

Lanny

Any news on the LTEC Piano Lanny?

Kindest Regards,

Chris

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Not for a while yet,  Chris.  Gotta get the economy back on track over here before companies loosen up the budgets for new products.  Sure won't be doing it myself.  Just play it about 2 hours a day though.

Kudos,

Lanny

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

The LTEC piano action and keyboard looks very interesting.

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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

I own VPC1 for about a year, I am a serious enthusiast but very far from being a proper pianist.

Pedals are pure rubbish - they are so annoyingly loud and cheaply made that it is a disgrace for this otherwise beautiful instrument. It's a cheap and ugly plastic case with ugly sticker that wasn't even aligned properly. You feel that you squeeze plastic with your foot, you hear the squeaking… It's so bad that I literarily use less pedal in my music because I don't want to touch it so often!

The look of the actual instrument… It's the best looking electronic instrument I have ever seen. It's a beautiful sculpture that was complimented many times by my guests.

Keyboard is very nice, it didn't wear for me after maybe 400 hours of play time. Sometimes I do notice slight misalignments of the key when I touch them during practice (and of course when I look at them up close), so it is somehow noticeable (very very slightly!), but nothing that would annoy me and I am rather picky and snobby about the quality of things I own. I bet that most complex instruments especially wooden ones do have similar very slight flaws.

Good/bad thing about the keys - they are rather heavy, which at first hurt my ability to play, but now it made playing on every other piano much easier. On the other hand - keys go rather deep, so when I play on uprights with shallow keybeds I need some adjustment time.

Last edited by kamil.t (13-04-2016 12:24)

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Thank you very much kamil.t for your comments about the Kawai VPC1 MIDI keyboard. This is a very interesting discussion.

I currently own and play a Yamaha CP5 digital piano with a fine wooden (or partly wooden) action. However, I'm considering two other MIDI keyboards to purchase--

* The Kawai VPC1 (or perhaps a VPC2 if I wait long enough and Kawai decides to produce such a keyboard)
* The StudioLogic (Fatar) SL88 Grand MIDI keyboard, which is less than half as expensive as the Kawai in the U.S., the action of which has many favorable reviews

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Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Many people don't like the Fatar action (but it is probably widespread compared to others) so my suggestion is always to try one before you it, if you can, and consider the type of action you're trying (Fatar has many).

Back to the Kawai because I am interested in buying one: can somebody who has tried both comment on the action compared to a Roland? Do you think it is heavier or not? This is a key aspect for me.

Last edited by Chopin87 (13-04-2016 19:48)
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: Kawai VPC1 MIDI Controller Keyboard

Spoken VPC1 half a year. I play at work every day on the grand piano. Houses on VPC1. I do not have any problems performing at the piano. Even in a post VPC1-Pianoteq the grand piano easier to play). Pianoteq does an amazing thing: you can listen to the singing part of the listener, and you can listen to the artist ears)