Topic by RafeHollister

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Topic: New to Pianoteq

Hello, all.

I'm new to the virtual piano game, and have learned a great deal reading through this forum.  And while I understand that nothing replaces the actual diving in and doing of a thing, I'm hoping that some of you out there can help me get a head start on the learning curve.

I bought my first electric piano thirty-five years ago - a Rhodes suitcase.  Wish I still had it!  Purchased a Yamaha Clavinova twenty years ago, and enjoyed playing it though was never really happy with the keyboard.  Especially after I spilled a beer in it.  To its credit, all the notes still played - some were just a little reluctant.

After several years of moving around for work and not moving around on a keyboard, I am in a situation that will allow me to spend some time reacquainting myself with the piano.  My quarters and my budget won't allow me the luxury of a nice acoustic piano at this point, so I'm going with a digital.  I've narrowed it down to Kawai - either the MP11 or the VCP1.  I had the opportunity to try out the action on both a few days ago, and must say that there's not enough difference (for me, anyway) for that to be a deciding factor.  I know the MP11 would be the easy choice - just plug it in and play (with headphones, at least).

However, I'm leaning the other way.  I like the look of the VCP1, and I'm really only interested in the piano sounds.  What I'd like to glean from others' experience is what a minimal (but quality) setup would be.  While I can start out with Pianoteq 5 installed on my laptop (you all have convinced me to go the modelling route), I would like to run the VCP1 through a dedicated system similar to the one Mossy has described.  I'd like to run a Linux OS (call me crazy - I've never used Linux before, but do have command line experience), and I'd like to use a touchscreen monitor to interact with Pianoteq and to display sheet music.  I'll start out with just headphones (I'm out in the country - I'd only be irritating the squirrels, but what did they ever do to me?) and eventually add some sort of monitor, once I've regained a reasonable level of proficiency.

My questions at this point are:  1) If I purchase the Pianoteq 5 product for Windows, can I download the Linux product later without repurchase?  2) In a small, fanless system as Mossy described, what winds up being the "digital audio interface"?  I have no need for microphones, or recording - I'm just wanting to play a piano, and I guess my chief concern after all my internet research is the issue of latency in controller/DAW systems (as opposed to digital pianos).  Am I correct in my simplistic understanding that the MIDI signal from the controller is processed by the PC (via Pianoteq) and then is processed by the “sound card” and drivers (ASIO) for use by either headphones or monitors, and that most latency problems occur in the sound card/driver portion of the equation?

Thanks for bearing with the introduction!

Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: New to Pianoteq

1) Yes. You get access to Win/OSX/Linux installs with your purchase.
2) Usually those small systems have an audio chip onboard. A Realtek HD or something. Not the best thing out there for sure... ASIO doesn't relate to Linux, though, it's purely a Windows thing.

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Mossy

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Re: New to Pianoteq

The analog to ASIO under Linux is simply choosing the actual hardware device instead of PulseAudio.  Choosing PulseAudio is the equivalent of not using ASIO under Windows in that all sound goes through the OS's mixer in order to support multiple applications at the cost of performance & latency.

After you get a bit more into Linux, you can use JACK to give Pianoteq low-latency access while regular applications (e.g. watching Youtube on your browser) goes through the PulseAudio-JACK bridge.

https://soundcloud.com/mossy456/

Reply by RafeHollister

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Re: New to Pianoteq

Thank you, EvilDragon and Mossy, for your help!

I've noticed that most of the fanless systems seem to utilize the Realtek audio chip, which as EvilDragon points out, may not be the best choice for this application.  What's the workaround for this?  Is there a better onboard chip, or do I need to add an external device?  Seems that going external is just an opportunity to add latency to the equation.

Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: New to Pianoteq

Actually, external audio interfaces can get you much better performance than the Realtek chip, when you start using their well-optimized (usually - depends on manufacturer!) ASIO drivers (considering Windows here).


On the other hand, perhaps Realtek can perform better under Linux than under Windows with ASIO4ALL... Some other users here might have some more insight.

Last edited by EvilDragon (21-12-2015 15:26)
Hard work and guts!

Reply by skip

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Re: New to Pianoteq

RafeHollister wrote:

Am I correct in my simplistic understanding that the MIDI signal from the controller is processed by the PC (via Pianoteq) and then is processed by the “sound card” and drivers (ASIO) for use by either headphones or monitors, and that most latency problems occur in the sound card/driver portion of the equation?

You are correct - most latency problems relate to the sound card & driver, but do be aware that it can sometimes be other things. Just for an example, my digital piano (Casio PX-330) causes excessive latency, unless I turn it's internal sounds off. I.e - even though I am using the DP purely as a MIDI controller for Pianoteq, having the internal sounds enabled bogs it down. This kind of problem is rare though.

Greg.

Reply by oldionus

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Re: New to Pianoteq

skip wrote:
RafeHollister wrote:

Am I correct in my simplistic understanding that the MIDI signal from the controller is processed by the PC (via Pianoteq) and then is processed by the “sound card” and drivers (ASIO) for use by either headphones or monitors, and that most latency problems occur in the sound card/driver portion of the equation?

You are correct - most latency problems relate to the sound card & driver, but do be aware that it can sometimes be other things. Just for an example, my digital piano (Casio PX-330) causes excessive latency, unless I turn it's internal sounds off. I.e - even though I am using the DP purely as a MIDI controller for Pianoteq, having the internal sounds enabled bogs it down. This kind of problem is rare though.

Greg.


My recent experience may not be entirely relevant, but I went with the VPC1 as well, and I, too, am really only interested in playing the pianos (and some of the historical instruments), not in mixing in mics or other things. I don't need to be able to use other software.

I have found that latency is not an issue for me, using an M-Audio M-Track Mk II as an audio interface in place of the crappy Realtek soundcard in my relatively cheap Acer Aspire laptop with dual core processor running Windows 10. I just run PTQ standalone, plug in the M-Audio and the controller, and it's fine through headphones. Plugging in powered monitors (I'm using KRK Rokits) with xlr cables, and I get no serious latency issues and no audible hum. (I did have to replace an aftermarket power supply cord that was causing ground hum). Personally, I don't care for touchscreen tablets or trying to read music from screens. I guess I'm old fashioned, but I like to write on my music (in pencil, of course!), and I just can't see the screens well enough to really find them useful.

If you're thinking of buying a VPC1, you're already talking about a fair amount of money, so I mention all this because most of the rest of my set up was relatively cheap, and the results are quite satisfactory.

Amateur Standalone PTQ user; interests classical music, especially Bach and Mozart, and historic keyboards

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