Topic: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Now that I'm using Pianoteq, I have noticed that there is a general conservation of names of the different variants of the D4 and K2 pianos, as well as the other pianos.  A few of these I understand, such as the difference between the AB and the BA microphones, as well as "out of tune" and "honky-tonk".  What about some of the other terms, such as "recording"?  There are a variety of these phrases, also including "clean", "player", "jazz", "classical", "daily practice" and so forth that are present as descriptors through many of the different varieties of different keyboards.  Is there some guide from Moddart or on this form that describes with the general naming scheme is, both in order to understand what they are providing, as well as to name our own settings appropriately?

– David

- David

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

I wouldn't concern myself with the names. Just go by your ears.

Hard work and guts!

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

I think it is a very good question. Although personally I just trust my ears, several times I wondered, what are the rules or intentions of the names. Or for example can the mono-compatibility be derived from it.

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

The different versions of the same instrument are all about the Tuning, Voicing, Design, Effects etc settings, so on PTQ Standard/Pro you can have a look and see exactly how they differ.

3/2 = 5

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

dklein wrote:

Now that I'm using Pianoteq, I have noticed that there is a general conservation of names of the different variants of the D4 and K2 pianos, as well as the other pianos.  A few of these I understand, such as the difference between the AB and the BA microphones, as well as "out of tune" and "honky-tonk".  What about some of the other terms, such as "recording"?  There are a variety of these phrases, also including "clean", "player", "jazz", "classical", "daily practice" and so forth that are present as descriptors through many of the different varieties of different keyboards.  Is there some guide from Moddart or on this form that describes with the general naming scheme is, both in order to understand what they are providing, as well as to name our own settings appropriately?

– David

David, it is not very easy to answer your questions. There isn't really any general naming scheme, the names are usually discussed and fixed during the beta tests and result from the discussions with the beta team.

The "recording" presets are intended to be used for recording, the reason being that one usually don't expect the same from a preset whether it is used for playing or recording. This is actually at first sight a strange phenomena, and is widely discussed in the various forums. A partial (and debatable) explanation can be that:

  • when you play, you will usually set the loudness to a level comparable to the one you would have when playing a real acoustic piano. In that case you want a relatively dry, close and direct sound, with a high level of dynamics (50 to 60),

  • when you listen, you will usually set the loudness much lower, as when you listen to a CD or the radio or whatever recorded music. In this case, you want more ambiance, more distance to the piano, and much less dynamics (20 to 30) in order to be able to still hear the ppp without having the fff too loud.

I think the names "clean", "player", "jazz", "classical", "daily practice" speak for themselves, and you can find some more information on the intention of the preset by opening the preset management window (click on the pencil icon right to the preset menu) and reading the related comment on the preset.

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

I believe I was wrong in my earlier post and there seems to be more to the different versions of the one instrument than just the user adjustable parameters; e.g., D4 Hybrid sounds nothing like D4 Daily Practice even when all the parameters, effects etc are made the same.

3/2 = 5

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Thanks, Phillipe, for your answer.  I appreciate it and will play more with Dynamics settings (now if I could just cure my latency problem with my Surface Pro4 tablet running Windows10).

Also, I've been a bit distracted by my latest acquisition, a Steinway 1885 Model "F" upright with 20-year-old action.  Also, I just bought QRS's PNOscan II and their stop rail, so, after a bunch on reading and then installation, I'll be well on my way to having perhaps the world's oldest digital keyboard with which to play Pianoteq.  Pretty soon I will be able to have my "F" sound like a "D"!  (and sneaking some speakers or transducers into the case and/or onto the soundboard without destroying or significantly altering the old boy will be the next question...)

- David

- David

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

SteveLy wrote:

I believe I was wrong in my earlier post and there seems to be more to the different versions of the one instrument than just the user adjustable parameters; e.g., D4 Hybrid sounds nothing like D4 Daily Practice even when all the parameters, effects etc are made the same.

No, you were right. You can check it in the following way: load D4 Hybrid, freeze all parameters, change to D4 Daily Practice, the sound will be exactly the same as D4 Hybrid (compare via the AB button). Note however that particularly for D4 Hybrid, many of the changes concern the Note by Note Edit which can be seen only in the Pro version.

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Note however that particularly for D4 Hybrid, many of the changes concern the Note by Note Edit which can be seen only in the Pro version.

Thank you, Philippe, that explains why I could not transition between the two with Pianoteq Std.

3/2 = 5

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

SteveLy wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Note however that particularly for D4 Hybrid, many of the changes concern the Note by Note Edit which can be seen only in the Pro version.

Thank you, Philippe, that explains why I could not transition between the two with Pianoteq Std.

You're welcome SteveLy. I forgot to tell that the mentioned Note by Note Edit concerns mainly the spectrum profile, strongly emphasizing the partials 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. to get this typical organ-like sound.

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

You're welcome SteveLy. I forgot to tell that the mentioned Note by Note Edit concerns mainly the spectrum profile, strongly emphasizing the partials 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. to get this typical organ-like sound.

Interesting. I have been trying to create organ-like sounds with Pianoteq without much success. How does one edit partials past 8, which is the highest the "Spectrum profile" setting seems to allow?

3/2 = 5

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

SteveLy wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:

You're welcome SteveLy. I forgot to tell that the mentioned Note by Note Edit concerns mainly the spectrum profile, strongly emphasizing the partials 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. to get this typical organ-like sound.

Interesting. I have been trying to create organ-like sounds with Pianoteq without much success. How does one edit partials past 8, which is the highest the "Spectrum profile" setting seems to allow?

You need the PRO version, which allows to adjust all overtones.

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

You need the PRO version, which allows to adjust all overtones.

That's a fantastic feature. I missed it in the promotional material for the Pro version (I took "each overtone for each note" to mean each of the eight overtones also accessible in the Std version). It's clearly explained in the manual though.

I will definitely have to upgrade to the Pro. The Std version already offers great possibilities for modifying/creating instruments to one's liking, but when I tweak the settings to achieve a certain kind of tone, I can never quite get it right across the whole keyboard. So note-by-note editing will be very useful.

3/2 = 5

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

OK, I gather this is really obvious, but I don't quite understand it. What DOES AB and BA mean? I know it has to do with reversing microphone placement, but what is the point? (I am a little challenged in this department, because I have single side deafness so stereo imaging doesn't mean much to me).

Amateur Standalone PTQ user; interests classical music, especially Bach and Mozart, and historic keyboards

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Its the positioning of the microphones - I prefer the BA myself as the AB makes the trebles sound from the left and the bass from the right which sounds wrong from the pianists position. You can see the mics setup by clicking the little microphone icon to the right of the "Sound Recording" text under "Output".

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Aidan wrote:

Its the positioning of the microphones - I prefer the BA myself as the AB makes the trebles sound from the left and the bass from the right which sounds wrong from the pianists position. You can see the mics setup by clicking the little microphone icon to the right of the "Sound Recording" text under "Output".

But when piano is recorded and heard as audience, what is the common mic perspective (AB or BA)?

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

scorpio wrote:
Aidan wrote:

Its the positioning of the microphones - I prefer the BA myself as the AB makes the trebles sound from the left and the bass from the right which sounds wrong from the pianists position. You can see the mics setup by clicking the little microphone icon to the right of the "Sound Recording" text under "Output".

But when piano is recorded and heard as audience, what is the common mic perspective (AB or BA)?

With Pianoteq, AB. The name seems to refer mostly to a method of positioning mics ( see http://en.wikiaudio.org/AB_stereo_mic_technique ) without really saying what left and right mean. In Pianoteq's Sound Recording panel for presets with an AB title, you can see that mic 1 corresponding to the left channel by default, is to the left from the audience's perspective in a concert venue. BA is just a term for inverting those mics in Pianoteq. Think of it as what a classical singer hears when facing the audience with the piano at the back.

AB can make the treble strings sound more to the left since they are closer to the left ear than the bass strings, and also shorter. The AB presets are not designed for a player perspective, there are other presets for that.

Last edited by Gilles (07-01-2016 16:07)

Re: What do the names of the different piano variations mean?

Gilles wrote:
scorpio wrote:
Aidan wrote:

Its the positioning of the microphones - I prefer the BA myself as the AB makes the trebles sound from the left and the bass from the right which sounds wrong from the pianists position. You can see the mics setup by clicking the little microphone icon to the right of the "Sound Recording" text under "Output".

But when piano is recorded and heard as audience, what is the common mic perspective (AB or BA)?

With Pianoteq, AB. The name seems to refer mostly to a method of positioning mics ( see http://en.wikiaudio.org/AB_stereo_mic_technique ) without really saying what left and right mean. In Pianoteq's Sound Recording panel for presets with an AB title, you can see that mic 1 corresponding to the left channel by default, is to the left from the audience's perspective in a concert venue. BA is just a term for inverting those mics in Pianoteq. Think of it as what a classical singer hears when facing the audience with the piano at the back.

AB can make the treble strings sound more to the left since they are closer to the left ear than the bass strings, and also shorter. The AB presets are not designed for a player perspective, there are other presets for that.

\
Thanks to everyone who responded to this, it's very helpful, especially to someone like me who hears the frequency response, but has a limited ability to detect spatial distribution of sound (one-ear deafness; which is more common in men for some reason).

Amateur Standalone PTQ user; interests classical music, especially Bach and Mozart, and historic keyboards