Hello,
For those who know about piano setting, can you give me some indications / orientations about the parameters that I should tweak to approach this kind of sound which I find marvellous, please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD8ROleqydU
Thanks in advance for your interest,
SK
Hello Mr. Stamkorg,
You might consider starting with the D4 Cinematic preset. The youtube video was awash in reverb, and its dynamic range sounded somewhat compressed. The cinematic preset's dynamic range has already been reduced to 24dB instead of 30 or 36dB on plenty of other D4 presets.
Please take the following observation with a grain of salt: The piano in the video was out of tune at Ab4 (Ab above middle C). Curiously, the note G4 (the highest note in the opening triplet arppegios) was also out of tune by the same amount. I don't know this for sure, but could it be that the sample library did not sample every note, and just pitch stretched one note's data to surrounding notes? Anyway, if you have Pianoteq Pro, you may wish to raise the unison detuning in notes F4 and G4 to duplicate this fault in the sample sets.
Cheers,
Joe
Hello Mr. Stamkorg,
You might consider starting with the D4 Cinematic preset. The youtube video was awash in reverb, and its dynamic range sounded somewhat compressed. The cinematic preset's dynamic range has already been reduced to 24dB instead of 30 or 36dB on plenty of other D4 presets.
Please take the following observation with a grain of salt: The piano in the video was out of tune at Ab4 (Ab above middle C). Curiously, the note G4 (the highest note in the opening triplet arppegios) was also out of tune by the same amount. I don't know this for sure, but could it be that the sample library did not sample every note, and just pitch stretched one note's data to surrounding notes? Anyway, if you have Pianoteq Pro, you may wish to raise the unison detuning in notes F4 and G4 to duplicate this fault in the sample sets.
Cheers,
Joe
Thank you Joe for the answer,
This is an old sample library, so, yes, there may be some stretching in their sampling work, I don't know, there is no informations about the specifications of this virtual piano.
Now, I find this sound so alive... Am I the only one?
I agree, there is to much reverb, but ok, it is a recording situation.
At home, just to play, I often switch off the reverb and increase the sympathetic resonance a little bit.
I don't have the Pro version, only the Standard. Do you think that makes sense to raise the global Unison detuning to approach this kind of "dissonance, vibration"? (I don't know the right words to describe this sensation, but I like that...)
Hello Mr. Stamkorg,
If you enjoyed hearing the kind of "dissonance, vibration" you might consider increasing the "condition" slider to the first point that you are aware the tuning is not quite right. When you've reached that point, move the slider just a little bit to the left, to as to lessen that value very slightly. In this way, you will get to enjoy the sound of the piano, but without its sound being distracting to you.
Cheers,
Joe
Stam,
If you really-really like that sound — and you’re certainly not the only one: while not a favourite of mine, the Art Vista quickly became a widely acclaimed and much loved sampled piano ever since it was introduced all those years ago and any serious list of most treasured sampled pianos will find the library invariably in the top region —, the simplest way to get it, is to save up $89 and buy it.
Better hurry though cause the Vista normally costs $199 and the heavily reduced price which it currently sells at, is only on occasion of the developer having recently released the v3 upgrade.
Me, I don’t belong to the group of Pianoteq fans who believe that just about every type of pianosound is within reach of this splendid software. Try all you like — even with the Pro version of Pianoteq — but you won’t get anywhere near the timbre and character of the Art Vista. Not even close to near. To my ears, the D4 sounds nothing like the Vista, nor does any of the other Pianoteq models. Totally different soundworlds, I believe.
Having said that, the quickest way to attain a hint of that singing quality which you like and which is such a defining characteristic of the Vista, is indeed to raise the Unison parameter. It’ll only be a very faint and unconvincing approximation though, because the instabilities in the Vista’s tuning are so complex and irregular — each and every sample sings in its own unique way and the tuning of the instrument is very stretched as well — that you need more than a single parameter, a lot more, to get something of that peculiar undulating sound out of Pianoteq.
The Vista is also a very resonant piano, by default. Unlike Joe, I don’t think there too much reverb on the piano in the YT-clip — I certainly wouldn’t call it “awash in reverb” —, what I think you’re hearing is the pronounced resonance of the piano increasing the impression of there being plenty of reverb. I find the amount of reverb in that YT-clip actually rather modest.
But it’s that combination of (1) the Vista’s resonance (2) a fairly long reverb and (3) the compression, which creates the illusion that there is a lot more reverb than there actually is. (Joe is quite right about the limited dynamics though: realistic dynamics are not the Vista’s strongest point. Even when not compressing the instrument, it still sounds compressed.)
I would love to be able to suggest to raise the resonance of Pianoteq in order to get closer to the Vista, but unfortunately, that is not the case either. Mainly because Pianoteq’s resonance generates an entirely different sound than the captured resonance in the Vista. Moreover, raising Pianoteq’s resonance also adds a lot of low and low-mid weight to the sound — unfriendly observers would call it boomy-ness — which is completely absent in the Vista as well.
So, I don’t know. Personally, I wouldn’t even try it. I prefer to use Pianoteq for what it’s good at (which is many things), but I never try to make it do things which it isn’t good at. Emulating the Art Vista falls very much in that category, I’m afraid.
_
Unlike Joe, I don’t think there too much reverb on the piano in the YT-clip — I certainly wouldn’t call it “awash in reverb” —, what I think you’re hearing is the pronounced resonance of the piano increasing the impression of there being plenty of reverb. I find the amount of reverb in that YT-clip actually rather modest.
+1. It does have a very wide stereo image which I suppose might give the impression of reverb to some.
Very nice sound indeed.
Greg.
Stam,
If you really-really like that sound — and you’re certainly not the only one: while not a favourite of mine, the Art Vista quickly became a widely acclaimed and much loved sampled piano ever since it was introduced all those years ago and any serious list of most treasured sampled pianos will find the library invariably in the top region —, the simplest way to get it, is to save up $89 and buy it.
Better hurry though cause the Vista normally costs $199 and the heavily reduced price which it currently sells at, is only on occasion of the developer having recently released the v3 upgrade.Me, I don’t belong to the group of Pianoteq fans who believe that just about every type of pianosound is within reach of this splendid software. Try all you like — even with the Pro version of Pianoteq — but you won’t get anywhere near the timbre and character of the Art Vista. Not even close to near. To my ears, the D4 sounds nothing like the Vista, nor does any of the other Pianoteq models. Totally different soundworlds, I believe.
Having said that, the quickest way to attain a hint of that singing quality which you like and which is such a defining characteristic of the Vista, is indeed to raise the Unison parameter. It’ll only be a very faint and unconvincing approximation though, because the instabilities in the Vista’s tuning are so complex and irregular — each and every sample sings in its own unique way and the tuning of the instrument is very stretched as well — that you need more than a single parameter, a lot more, to get something of that peculiar undulating sound out of Pianoteq.
The Vista is also a very resonant piano, by default. Unlike Joe, I don’t think there too much reverb on the piano in the YT-clip — I certainly wouldn’t call it “awash in reverb” —, what I think you’re hearing is the pronounced resonance of the piano increasing the impression of there being plenty of reverb. I find the amount of reverb in that YT-clip actually rather modest.
But it’s that combination of (1) the Vista’s resonance (2) a fairly long reverb and (3) the compression, which creates the illusion that there is a lot more reverb than there actually is. (Joe is quite right about the limited dynamics though: realistic dynamics are not the Vista’s strongest point. Even when not compressing the instrument, it still sounds compressed.)I would love to be able to suggest to raise the resonance of Pianoteq in order to get closer to the Vista, but unfortunately, that is not the case either. Mainly because Pianoteq’s resonance generates an entirely different sound than the captured resonance in the Vista. Moreover, raising Pianoteq’s resonance also adds a lot of low and low-mid weight to the sound — unfriendly observers would call it boomy-ness — which is completely absent in the Vista as well.
So, I don’t know. Personally, I wouldn’t even try it. I prefer to use Pianoteq for what it’s good at (which is many things), but I never try to make it do things which it isn’t good at. Emulating the Art Vista falls very much in that category, I’m afraid.
_
Hello,
Thank you for your interest.
you are probably right, you probably cannot imitate such a sound but I am just trying to go in that direction.
Tweaking the Unison, the condition slider, the stretching, a small amount of more Sympathetic resonance and introducing a very small amount of detuning on several notes (randomly choosen), gives me a nice result starting from the Bluethner, but this can be applied to the other models.
Maybe the addition of a pair of microphones in the room coould enhance the reverb sensation, even if I am not a fan of big reverbs.
I agree, the best to do is to get the library, if you like it, but the problem is that it requires Kontakt 5 full version, so I should add 300-400 euros...
I agree, the best to do is to get the library, if you like it, but the problem is that it requires Kontakt 5 full version, so I should add 300-400 euros...
Looking at their Website http://www.artvista.net/vgp2.html
it says "Native Instruments free Kontakt 4 Player, OR Kontakt (version 3.5 - 4)"
Maybe using the Free Player would be a better deal...
stamkorg wrote:I agree, the best to do is to get the library, if you like it, but the problem is that it requires Kontakt 5 full version, so I should add 300-400 euros...
Looking at their Website http://www.artvista.net/vgp2.html
it says "Native Instruments free Kontakt 4 Player, OR Kontakt (version 3.5 - 4)"Maybe using the Free Player would be a better deal...
Thanks,
It is not so clear, they are now in V3, which requires the Full version of Kontakt.
That seems to be a discounted price for the remaining V2, but then it is not the latest version.
I will stay now with my Pianoteq and see in the future.
Art Vista
http://www.artvista.net/vgp3.html: Art Vista Virtual Grand Piano 3 is based on recordings of a 1960 Hamburg Steinway Model ”B” and offers stunningly realistic piano presets for every possible recording genre. It includes emulations of famous piano recordings from the 1950's through today by artists such as Aretha Franklin, Elton John, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Donny Hathaway, Chet Baker, Jan Johansson, Ray Charles, John Lewis, Bobby Timmons, Billy Preston, Keith Jarrett, Jackson Browne, Leon Russell, John Legend, Arthur Rubinstein, and Bill Evans.
1960 Hamburg Steinway Model B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0XM8ezrFpQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZcEF-gd7cs
Conclusion: We need a Steinway B in Pianoteq.
Hello Don,
Are you aware that the vintage 1960 refurbished Steinway B in the above two videos is a New York Steinway rather than a Hamburg Steinway? Look at the sharp-cornered (not curved) cheeks in the piano's case, just beyond the keyboard. This is the tell tale detail that you may impress your friends in pointing out a New York version from a Hamburg version from 10 yards away.
Cheers,
Joe
Hello Don,
Are you aware that the vintage 1960 refurbished Steinway B in the above two videos is a New York Steinway rather than a Hamburg Steinway? Look at the sharp-cornered (not curved) cheeks in the piano's case, just beyond the keyboard. This is the tell tale detail that you may impress your friends in pointing out a New York version from a Hamburg version from 10 yards away.
Cheers,
Joe
Hi Joe,
I'm afraid I didn't. Did they have different characteristics?
It's hard to tell what the distinctive character of each notes are like when you listen to demos like the original video posted by Stamkorg, or the ones on the Art Vista website.
A Hamburg Steinway B has a slightly thicker soundboard than a New York Model B, resulting in a slightly more muted sound; this means one may need to play a little "harder" to make a Hamburg to brighten up the sound. Another difference between the two sources is that Hamburg Steinways' actions are purchased from Renner (according to Steinway's own specifications), whereas the NY Steinway's action is manufactured in-house.
According to the sales video, brand new Hamburg Steinway pianos are more carefully voiced at the factory than are New York Steinways. The American factory relies more on its retailers' technicians to voice the individual pianos. In the end, NY Model B pianos may have more variability as they come straight from the factory, but when professionally voiced and regulated, both instruments are remarkably similar sounding.
Cheers,
Joe
Conclusion: We need a Steinway B in Pianoteq.
Haha, you are right,
Or at least some more dirty presets
Conclusion: We need a Steinway B in Pianoteq.
And for me the same conclusion too: I need a Steinway B in Pianoteq! :-)
Hello All,
I, too, would enjoy a B in my arsenal.
Why? In real life, I have played on more B models than on 9' D models. As such, I would probably use less reverb on a B, because the Model D is usually found in a concert hall setting. True, I have played and tuned a lot of 7' grands in church settings (Steinway B, Yamaha C7, Baldwin 7' of unknown model number, and Mason-Hamlin BB), and they are in quite reverberant settings.
Cheers,
Joe