Topic by 0jec1

  • Avatar
  • 0jec1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 23-08-2015
  • Posts: 3

Topic: Key Release and ... Key Depression?

Hi!  New Studio Bundle owner here.  I love the software so far, and look forward to digging deep with it. 

One thing: I can't find anything in the interface that seems to address the noise the depression of a key makes.  If someone could help me locate it I'd appreciate it greatly.  No matter how hard I hit the key and how close I position the mics the actual sound of the physical wooden/ivory/etc. key impacting the instrument keybed on being pressed remains absent.

Kind Regards,
J.

Reply by mabry

  • Avatar
  • mabry
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-02-2010
  • Posts: 118

Re: Key Release and ... Key Depression?

0jec1 wrote:

I can't find anything in the interface that seems to address the noise the depression of a key makes.  If someone could help me locate it I'd appreciate it greatly.

Main Window / VOICING / Hammer Noise - this controls the volume of the sound of the hammer that strike the key

Not quite the same as the noise of a key but by that you would have to be talking about the sound of all the pieces of the action as they move when a key is depressed, right? I don't think Pianoteq models all of that when a key is being depressed.

If I raise the level of Hammer Noise all the way over to the right and press one of the highest keys I can here the noise clearly. Compare to the way it sounds when the volume is at its lowest.

Main Window / ACTION / Key release noise - this controls the volume of the sound of key off

Raise this to its highest level and then strike any key and let the sound die away and then release the key. I can hear the hammer come back to rest. I can even hear it without letting the sound of the string die away.

Maybe you tried this already?

Reply by 0jec1

  • Avatar
  • 0jec1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 23-08-2015
  • Posts: 3

Re: Key Release and ... Key Depression?

Thanks for the idea, Mabry, but I had already tried that option.  The thing is - especially on the earlier instruments - it doesn't really seem analogous.  A lot of early instruments have wood keys, and the clacking of them creates a great deal of articulate nuance and intimacy when recorded close-up in my experience.

Maybe I'm a bit of an uber-perfectionist in some ways, but I'm a bit surprised to hear that Pianoteq doesn't model the internals of the instrument.  I would think if you're shooting for absolute realism a sine qua non would be the duplication of all of the materials and mechanics of what you are attempting to replicate.  All of those sounds that reverberate through the instrument create in part the richness of it.  That being said, I don't know anything about physical modelling or even if they are actually replicating the physical body of the instrument or only it's physical sound.

In any case, I'm wondering what to do now if such an option doesn't exist, because it seems to me having the mic really close to the keyboard (which I'm interested in) and NOT having the sound of the physical keys themselves when they are struck isn't really acceptable in terms of realism.

Is there some sort of Pianoteq suggestion box?   Other than that, any suggestions would be very helpful.

Kind Regards,
J.

Reply by mabry

  • Avatar
  • mabry
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-02-2010
  • Posts: 118

Re: Key Release and ... Key Depression?

0jec1 wrote:

In any case, I'm wondering what to do now if such an option doesn't exist, because it seems to me having the mic really close to the keyboard (which I'm interested in) and NOT having the sound of the physical keys themselves when they are struck isn't really acceptable in terms of realism.

Is there some sort of Pianoteq suggestion box?   Other than that, any suggestions would be very helpful.

Kind Regards,
J.

I don't understand what you aren't hearing. What 'option' does not exist for you? Both the hammer noise and key release noise settings sound different across instruments for me. The thwack of the keys for the historical instruments are different from the more modern ones, this is especially apparent in the Nuepert clavichord and the harpsichords. The sound of the keys coming to rest - key off - has a different character for different instruments. Are  you looking for something that is more realistic in terms of someone playing an instrument or just close-micing it?

Reply by 0jec1

  • Avatar
  • 0jec1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 23-08-2015
  • Posts: 3

Re: Key Release and ... Key Depression?

mabry wrote:

I don't understand what you aren't hearing. What 'option' does not exist for you? Both the hammer noise and key release...

The sound I'm looking for is the sound of the key hitting the keybed when the key is hit.  This has nothing to do with the hammer, but with the sound of the actual block of wood/ivory that is the key thumping/clacking against the bed that the keys lay within.  If there were no hammer or strings in the piano the key would make a percussive sound itself when it is pressed down as it hits the keybed and body of the piano.  With the mic really close to the keys this percussive sound should be fairly audible to differing degrees depending on the instrument.

I do hear a difference in attack as you're saying, but I'm not hearing the physicality of the keys.

If you open up the default Neupert and click on the microphone and adjust both of the microphones directly over the keybed - right above the keys - and strike forte you'll notice that although the hammer attack is more audible and perhaps more clear you don't actually here the physical keys hitting against the body of the clavichord.

For instance, listen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vam1XrbJoTM

You can hear pretty audibly the key knocking against the instrument.  And this is just a youtube video.

By the way, I found that video just for illustration purposes and it's one of a kind for sure.  Sunglasses, candlelight and clavichord.

Last edited by 0jec1 (25-08-2015 08:28)