Topic: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

Hello. I am a software developer and I sit in front of the computer for >10 hours a day. Since I started learning piano I also sit in front of the piano for 1-4 hours a day.

That can not be healthy of course.

I already upgraded my work environment and now I also think about upgrading my piano environment.

Of course I know about about basic piano ergonomics, correct posture, I have a teacher etc. Also, I don't have any immediate back problems, no chronic pains, I exercise etc. That is not the point.

I am contemplating exchanging my piano bench for a Swooper (http://www.swopper.com/swopper-classic-2/) or a similar "sitting device". But this is expensive, so before I pull the trigger I would like to ask if any of you tried such alternatives? Do you have some experiences you could share?

I actually sit on the exercise ball for some time now. It was tiring in the beginning, but now it's perfectly fine. What is not fine is that it prevents me from using pedals effectively and precisely. Actually it's not possible at all with regular technique - I need to do it "my way". Other than that I think it's great, but still - it's not a long term solution, as it's unacceptable for pedal-heavy pieces.

And Swooper... Seems like it could maybe solve the biggest issue with the ball - it's big and bulky which constrain my legs and when I want to lean in on the ball to reach the pedal it becomes hard to balance it. But while the ball was $20 the swooper is more like $700 and so I don't take this decision lightly

So, anyone has any experiences with alternatives to piano bench (or regular chairs)?

Last edited by kamil.t (14-07-2015 08:14)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

$700 (regular over $1000).... for a chair????

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

delt wrote:

$700 (regular over $1000).... for a chair????

Yup, it's this outrageous! But that is just an example that many people are familiar with and my question is generic. As you can see I started with "slightly cheaper" solutions

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I got a nice square metal bar stool with a nice cushioned top for about $15.00 at the thrift shop, and cut down the legs.  Seriously you need to look around thrift shops for something that will meet you needs. I don't think you will actually be happy with that expensive contraption.  It's likely to give you a sore butt in a few hours.

Last edited by GRB (13-07-2015 16:29)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I used a 'Swopper' for a while and I can not recommend it for playing piano. It has a hard edge/rim that pinches off the thigh. It helps a bit to loosen the lower hinge/pivot, but then it becomes too wobbly. At first I hoped this wobbling would be good for my back, but it was the opposite :-/

I went back to a normal piano bench with a foam pillow. But that combination is looking ugly and I'm searching for a better pad/pillow. I'm thinking of something viscoelastic, like Tempur or similar, but haven't seen something so far ...

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150713/qdmfarnf.jpg

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

groovy wrote:

I used a 'Swopper' for a while and I can not recommend it for playing piano.

Thanks groovy!

May I ask: With Swooper was it possible to plant your feet stable on the ground and use pedals without issues? Was it just that your back wasn't compatible with Swooper (in the loose setting) that made you gave it up?

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

kamil.t wrote:

May I ask: With Swooper was it possible to plant your feet stable on the ground and use pedals without issues?

Indeed, that was an issue too. In the beginning I hoped this instability would be a good training for my back and a "gratis gymnastic lesson". But I underestimated, how important a stable centrum is for controlling the extremities.  And it causes mental and physical stress (at least for me, others may like it ;-)

kamil.t wrote:

Was it just that your back wasn't compatible with Swooper (in the loose setting) that made you gave it up?

As I tried to mention it was also the blood circulation in the thighs and an overall too hard seat.

I still have it, who is interested, can buy it ...


http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150713/vnphaz8i.jpg

Last edited by groovy (13-07-2015 18:02)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30125923/
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00243923/
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S19031011/

Not exactly on topic, but just some inexpensive piano bench alternatives.

Last edited by AKM (14-07-2015 09:24)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

Mine is here http://www.conforama.fr/canape-salon-se...s/p/158472 (8€) !!

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

There is no magic chair or magic bench, despite a very good one (confortable and orthopedic) and right position be really very importante.


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http://www.healingartsstudios.com/pianoergonomics.html


Well, even if you could levitate seated, you would still be subject to problems about be long periods in same position.


You can sit for a long time, if you have proper recess/breaks and resting after ever a couple few hours. To walk a bit helps after be 2 hours on a desk/piano. 
Exercises, some bodybuilding, helps you get stronger muscles and so helps you keep strong enough for such tasks. No need to be a atletic or things like that, just 2 times a week with moderation, and you can work more areas you use more or are more prone to problems, like exercise you back, abdomen, shoulders and arms. Many exercices you can do in your home.


Stretching it's very importante too, for hands,arms, forearms, and also for your back and legs. Stretching before and after start at the ofice, but without force too much. And there are basic stretching you can do in very short time, ever after a hour seated.



Some tips:

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Global Postural Re-education (GPR) and pilates are good ways to try to preserve posture health or treat problems related. The first help you educate the body to the right positions and get used to. The second tries to work streching and get the key muscles stronger in order to try to correct your body posture.


I don't know you, but just in case, don't late to see a good doctor if you have hemorrhoids.  In the beginning the treatments have very good results.



There are many things that could be made in this area, as prevention to help keep people healtier, with very low investments, and that would save billions for many countries. But few countries, few companies, do such, and as result many people get injurried on back arms and hands.

Last edited by Beto-Music (15-07-2015 15:24)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I'm not sure if this Quick-Lok piano bench\stool is healthier, but it lets the player adjust the height of the seat and the placement of the back support pad. I tried it out briefly, and the pads and general arrangement were comfortable. Very solidly built:

http://www.samash.com/keyboard-benches/...-qdx749xxx

I ran across it at Sam Ash, so I copied the link from that store. They seem to always have them on-hand, so you could check it out if there is a local Sam Ash in your area.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (16-07-2015 03:22)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

um, sorry to waste the space with this reply.  i came into the thread in the middle and didn't see the explanation in the first post.  i was going to delete my post, but thought it may have some other information you might not be aware of.  so down below this note is the original message i typed out.

there is a balance cushion:
http://tinyurl.com/pm3ecvm
you can put this on a chair that is lower, and still reach the pedals.




hello kamil, i am a personal trainer, and in our training, we use the swiss ball
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_ball
there are different sizes, and you can pump them up to be very solid.  you want to get one that allows your upper legs to be 90 degrees or slightly above.  basically, you are looking at needing to strengthen your core muscles.  here are pictures and a pretty good explanation:
https://www.acefitness.org/blog/3562/mu...f-the-core

all the muscles are connected, so you would also want to strengthen your upper body so you don't slouch or cave in, and your back, so you can support your body's weight in a good upright position (good posture).  at first it will be hard to do, because the muscles are used to staying in one position.  sitting on the ball makes them work, in really small ways, but eventually your back will strengthen.  it takes time.  you may not be comfortable at first.  you shouldn't sit in one position for long periods of time...the muscles get used to that position (sitting), and when you stand, they are all tight, because while you sit, the muscles are shortened (the cause of most lower back pain is tight hamstrings).  there are whole sets of strengthening exercises you can do with the swiss ball.  while you are sitting, you can roll your hips forward/backward/in a circular motion; and you can hop up and down.  you can balance on the ball as well...usually in the prone position.  i have friends who can move around with the ball beneath them by rolling it (they would be sort of kneeling on the ball with their hands in front).

suffice it to say, whatever chair you get, it isn't too much the chair being the problem, so much as it is staying in the sitting position for long periods of time.
feel free to ask if you have any further questions.  [Beto-Music has the right idea, two replies up!]

Last edited by jhudak (24-07-2015 16:34)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

Jake Johnson wrote:

I'm not sure if this Quick-Lok piano bench\stool is healthier, but it lets the player adjust the height of the seat and the placement of the back support pad. I tried it out briefly, and the pads and general arrangement were comfortable. Very solidly built:

http://www.samash.com/keyboard-benches/...-qdx749xxx

I ran across it at Sam Ash, so I copied the link from that store. They seem to always have them on-hand, so you could check it out if there is a local Sam Ash in your area.


This is an okay piano stool. However, I prefer an office armchair with a soft seat, adjustable armrests, and adjustable height and the parameters (rocking, swivel). For serious playing, I sit more towards the edge of the seat. When thinking and improvising, I will often recline a bit and even rest my arms on the armrests. (You might be surprised how doing that can greatly loosen up certain muscle groups and enhance your ability to play lightly, quickly, and with a rhythmic fluidity appropriate to jazz and contemporary classical music). Lastly, when I need to rest that's easy too! This sort of chair can easily be adjusted to relieve back tension as well. But mainly I would suggest that one stand up every 30 mins or so and move around, walk, do some deep knee bends etc..

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

Hey misc, can anyone recommend a good office chair for 10-12+ hours of use? I want to buy a good quality chair and so far, I have run through some of the cheap $150-$200 chairs

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

While a office chair can be confortable, if it's a good model, the arms support can be a proble for playing.
Be sure to test the chair with a piano.

jeanshumake wrote:

Hey misc, can anyone recommend a good office chair for 10-12+ hours of use? I want to buy a good quality chair and so far, I have run through some of the cheap $150-$200 chairs

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

It doesn't so much matter what you sit on as how you sit on it.
If you know how to sit (upright) what you you will want is something that is stable - doesn't move around. Even too much cushioning makes you unstable and causes you to clench in order to try to be still.
Try standing on a cushioned floor for a while and you may see what I mean.
Arm-chairs are different of course. They are designed to support you, a bit like a bed is. Sitting in an arm-chair is a whole different business. But you can't play the piano from an arm chair.
My preference (at the piano) is a hard wooden bench.
If you're serious about all of this stuff don't waste your money on ridiculous 'designer' or so-called 'ergonomic' chairs. Spend it on Alexander Technique lessons. Or if you don't want to do that (yet) get a copy of 'Towards Perfect Posture' by Brian Door. That will give you an introduction.

Cheers, Ian.

N1X - PT Pro - Linux

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I guess the stools for guitars are not suitable for piano use, but some height-adjustable  step stools will make you comfortable enough to help you maintain the correct posture during the competition. The unit structure is sturdy and there is no need to worry about the material or structural robustness.

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I'm not sure that this is a "healthier alternative" for you, but I use the following for playing keyboards and for playing guitar and I love it.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail...h-backrest

Kenny

If all things are possible, then it follows that it is possible for something to be impossible.

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

There's another issue when choosing piano benches or chairs online: what's good for the user who recommends it may not apply to you. Let's say you're 6'3", and some tiny 5'5" woman found the chair perfect for her... You might not find it as comfortable as she did!

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

jeanshumake wrote:

Hey misc, can anyone recommend a good office chair for 10-12+ hours of use? I want to buy a good quality chair and so far, I have run through some of the cheap $150-$200 chairs

Herman Miller Aeron Chair - size C.

Kawai MP11SE / Pianoteq Pro Studio Bundle v7.5.2 (includes every Pianoteq instrument - 21 currently)

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

For what it's worth, I am using this Roc-n-Soc chair:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail...rone-black

It's a drummer's chair, but I find it very good for playing piano. The saddle-like shape is better for your blood flow in your legs, when sitting there for hours at a time... as far as I know.

These are usually available at Guitar Center or similar places, so you can try before you buy.

Probably not stylish enough for a classic living room though

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I am sitting on my schlagwerk bass cajon(without the snares)because you can lean a bit backwards,or on a sitting ball.......
not the conventional ways......

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

Hi!
I know that problem too, and have switched to a drummer throne (Sattle) with a rest. very cheap one about 69€. Did it for me,

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I ditto the conventional wood top bench.  Also, an out of the box approach can be something like this:

Find a finished board - like a dining room table leaf.  Cut it to the length you desire.  Then get a couple of fairly hefty 3-way speaker cabinets and place the board on top of them.  you can choose to have the speakers oriented anyway you like ... forward facing or reward or to the side, for example.  Now you have a hefty speaker system without the sound blaring in your face.  An approximate final height should be about 19" or 48+cm.  Don't be afraid to "step out of the box".

Lanny

Re: Healthier alternatives to a piano bench?

I use this for computer work and home studio/piano playing and like it very much
It really release's the pressure on the back of the thighs, recommend
https://www.ajprodukter.dk/lager-indust...6262503.wf
Harrow Saddle stool