Topic: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Good afternoon, I have downloaded today Pianoteq 5.2 and I receive a CPU overload error since startup; at any key pressed CPU rise to 93% and makes impossible to play anything, nor even two keys in sequence.

I use Pianoteq with a netebook low in resources (Asus EEE 1005 PE, 2 GB Ram) under optimized Lubuntu 14.10, linux 4.0 low latency kernel but I had no issue in playing with version 5.14 or earlier (sample rate 48000, 128 samples, latency 2.7 ms) being extremely unfrequent to experience cpu overload issues).

Is there any material change in the version which require much better hardware or could it just be a source compilation / optimization issue?

Could this excessive hardware resources need be fixed?

Thank you very much

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

You are correct, the cpu usage is higher than expected. We're looking at it.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Thank you very much

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Not only linux, it also overloads my modest little i-7 laptop when playing the relatively simple embedded midi demo files in windoze 7.

Point is, this isn't a Linux problem.

Most of the time it uses 60 to 80 % on windows, which is WAY more than previous versions used for similar pieces.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

vinalopo wrote:

Good afternoon, I have downloaded today Pianoteq 5.2 and I receive a CPU overload error since startup; at any key pressed CPU rise to 93% and makes impossible to play anything, nor even two keys in sequence.

I use Pianoteq with a netebook low in resources (Asus EEE 1005 PE, 2 GB Ram) under optimized Lubuntu 14.10, linux 4.0 low latency kernel but I had no issue in playing with version 5.14 or earlier (sample rate 48000, 128 samples, latency 2.7 ms) being extremely unfrequent to experience cpu overload issues).

Is there any material change in the version which require much better hardware or could it just be a source compilation / optimization issue?

Could this excessive hardware resources need be fixed?

Thank you very much

An aside;
I found your use of the Eee PC interesting.
I had picked up a "refurbished" 900HD one for $85 a week or so ago.
It had Windows XP installed, but I shrank that and installed Ubuntu studio (Low Latency kernel) on a new partition - using an external DVD drive.
I haven't done much with it yet, but based on your experience with pianoteq I may use it as a dedicated music computer.

If I can get another one for the same price I will probably use that as a dedicated 3D printer driver

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

I suggest you drop Ubuntu studio in favour of Lubuntu; being lighter you would improve Pianoteq performance; the latest 4.00 kernel improve performance a little bit compared with the distribution release one.

in the meantime that a solution to the high CPU usage issue is released I have switched back to 5.14 release

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

We have released v5.2.1, it should fix this cpu usage regression.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

I had not noticed the regression on my Mac Pro under OSX 10.9 because pianoteq uses very little on this Xeon 3.7 GHz quad-core. Just for comparison, I played through the stock Blues Demo with D4 Daily Practice with version 5.2.0 and then with 5.2.1 after installing. What I got first is 12-14% cpu on the pianoteq GUI with a perf index of 70. On the new version, displayed cpu usage was down to 8-10% and perf was 71.

The displayed cpu usage is less than what I get on the Unix activity monitor for the process, though, about half. I guess this is because the pianoteq displayed value doesn't take into account the kernel and core audio time, and the Unix value is probably for the main thread only (% of one core) not taking into account the total threading for the 4 cores. I guess for less powerful computers, the pianoteq displayed value is conservative, and, depending on operating system and audio interface, some systems may be unusable much below 100% displayed cpu usage.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

julien wrote:

We have released v5.2.1, it should fix this cpu usage regression.

Thank you very much! The performance is excellent again. On an amd64 architecture I had a drop with the former v5.2.0. On a fanless baytrail-netbook I have nothing to give away ...

Great!

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

It is certainly less bad, but still shows over 30% on the D4 daily practice blues demo.
Windows 7, 8 Gig memory Intel I-7 2670QM 2.2 GigHz.

Windows task manager shows it using 4, 5 or 6 % of CPU with a couple of peaks at 9% - I think this is a percentage of the 8 available threads.

It also shows about 145 meg of memory in use, that was a surprise to me - though it is not a problem.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Using 5.2.1 on Linux and it ain't fixed!   Version 4.5.5 works fine, but I'm disappointed I can't use the latest and greatest!   Someone mentioned 5.1.4 but I can't find a link to download it. 

julien wrote:

You are correct, the cpu usage is higher than expected. We're looking at it.

Last edited by edhastie (21-05-2015 23:18)

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Not working for me...  5.2.1 goes into CPU overload almost immediately.  4.5.5 works fine though.  Someone mentioned rolling back to 5.1.4, do you have a link to download that version for Linux?   I can't find it.  Thanks for your help.

julien wrote:

We have released v5.2.1, it should fix this cpu usage regression.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

It seems to have been alleviated a little bit for some users, but it is still a CPU hog on Linux at least and is not much better on other platforms.
I don't want to descend into claiming that it is unusable, clearly for some it works well enough, but I don't want to be forced into a hardware upgrade just yet.

For some of us the options appear to be;
a) Hardware upgrade.
b) Step back however many revisions it takes
c) Stop using it.

Right now I resent the idea of a) above,
b) would leave me with a frozen version, locking me out of new features and improvements, such as V6.
I can't imagine V6 REVERSING this trend.
c) may be the "cut my losses" strategy of choice.

Unfortunately if I head toward sample libraries I will probably WANT an SSD, so that puts me back to a) again
OTOH, SSDs are cheaper than faster processors and for all other purposes this I-7 is adequately fast.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Another option to reduce CPU is to increase latency (done in linux/jack in increasing the buffer size).   Note that CPU usage per se is not the most important issue, DSP load is, and increasing the latency decreases the DSP requirement.
Of course, at some point latency becomes evident in live play so you can only do do much with this.   Also if you are using CPU frequency scaling, make sure to set the CPU to "Performance".

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

varpa wrote:

Another option to reduce CPU is to increase latency (done in linux/jack in increasing the buffer size).   Note that CPU usage per se is not the most important issue, DSP load is, and increasing the latency decreases the DSP requirement.
Of course, at some point latency becomes evident in live play so you can only do do much with this.   Also if you are using CPU frequency scaling, make sure to set the CPU to "Performance".

I agree, right now we can adjust some settings, but if the trend toward needing more resources continues then I think more and more of us will give up on it.

The point at which Pianoteq's appeal drops precipitously, where latency affects its responsiveness/playability.

This will be a competitive issue as much as it is a technical one, sample players continue to improve and SSD upgrades are a lot simpler/cheaper than CPU/GPU/motherboard/whole_system swaps.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

I must say I didn't notice a lot of difference on W7, perhaps a few %, but 5.2.1 is back to how it was before, happy to say. And I'm just running an i5 quadcore here. Playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu at 128 samples latency and I get about 10-15% CPU usage (2380P, 3.1 GHz).


BTW, you can always try and reduce the sample rate rather than increase the latency. That would also help reduce the CPU usage.


That said, no matter how much sample libraries get bigger, they can never really replace the playability and response aspect that Pianoteq has. That simply isn't gonna happen, the principle is too different.


aandr, ~30% on your CPU is a good result, I would say, if you didn't adjust CPU-related stuff. Even if it's i7, it's a mobile low-power version. At least make sure that things like core parking and SpeedStep are disabled, so that your CPU is always working at max, providing the best performance it can (2670QM can go up to 3.1 GHz in Turbo mode, you should definitely use that, as per-core speed is actually more important than the actual number of cores, for most of programs). You don't need a hardware upgrade. 30%-ish of CPU usage doesn't mean it's unusable - it's in fact VERY usable, especially if that's the only thing you're running (say, for a live gig). I don't know if you use other stuff along Pianoteq, are you talking about using it live, or using it in a DAW, you didn't give out those details. But it's definitely fairly usable, I would say.

Last edited by EvilDragon (03-06-2015 14:24)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Hello,
happy user since a year, but first post on this forum.

Unfortunately I just updated from version 5.x.x (don't remember which revision number) to 5.2.1 and I have now random crackles and the general performance is not as good as it used to be (it was even better than with version 4.5.5).

i7 quad core, windows 8.1, and the problem is present with both Reaper and Plogue Bidule.

Is it possible to revert to a previous 5 version, without going back to 4.5.5? Unfortunately I can't see a way to download a previous 5 version, and have a gig in 2 days...

Thanks a lot!

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Take your pick:

https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v500.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v501.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v510.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v511.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v512.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v513.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v514.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v520.exe
https://www.pianoteq.com/download?file=...p_v521.exe

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Wonderful, thanks a lot!

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

aandrmusic wrote:

I had picked up a "refurbished" 900HD one for $85 a week or so ago.
It had Windows XP installed, but I shrank that and installed Ubuntu studio (Low Latency kernel) on a new partition - using an external DVD drive.

Hey, another ubuntu studio user! Howdy

Yeah, i haven't been posting a lot on here lately, but i'm still happily twiddling around with pianoteq presets, and slowly but surely becoming a decent piano player.... at least i hope so

For me 5.2.1 is working fine, i3@3.4GHz, 4GB mem, using jack at 44.1KHz with a latency of 11ms (yeah that's good enough for me) .... pianoteq standalone says performance index around 70, and CPU usage around 15%.... never reaches 30% even if i mash all the notes with the sustain pedal all the way down.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

delt wrote:
aandrmusic wrote:

I had picked up a "refurbished" 900HD one for $85 a week or so ago.
It had Windows XP installed, but I shrank that and installed Ubuntu studio (Low Latency kernel) on a new partition - using an external DVD drive.

Hey, another ubuntu studio user! Howdy

Yeah, i haven't been posting a lot on here lately, but i'm still happily twiddling around with pianoteq presets, and slowly but surely becoming a decent piano player.... at least i hope so

For me 5.2.1 is working fine, i3@3.4GHz, 4GB mem, using jack at 44.1KHz with a latency of 11ms (yeah that's good enough for me) .... pianoteq standalone says performance index around 70, and CPU usage around 15%.... never reaches 30% even if i mash all the notes with the sustain pedal all the way down.

Yep, I like all the other "stuff" that comes with studio, plus it is generally less of a resource waster of resources than windoze.

I will probably try back-grading on the EeePC 900HD until I can get some sort of "acceptable" performance.
It is a bells and whistles vs tolerable latency trade-off, I just want it to basically WORK, even if I have to step back to my original V2 and work forwards from there
I am not an advanced player, or a picky sound tweaker, so piano'ish sounds are good enough for my practice.

Last edited by aandrmusic (06-06-2015 01:21)

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

I installed V2.1 on the little Eee-PC notebook computer today, in the Windows XP partition.
I'm not going to RAVE about it, but given the crummy little laptop speakers on that notebook, it doesn't sound TOO BAD.
I am NOT trying to get the best possible sound, but for my piano practice I think this might be an adequate music computer.  I will see how much better external speakers and an external D to A module sound.

The demo Chopin piece gets up to about 75% CPU load in the fast parts where the sustain pedal is down, but it doesn't overload or produce pops, drop-outs, etc.
Halving the sample frequency to (I think) 24K reduced that to about 40% without a huge degradation in the sound (OK, still through the same crummy speakers, so maybe it did but I can't hear the difference)

I may try a version 3 and will almost certainly try it in the Linux partition.
BTW, V2.1 was a 25Meg file

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

I am using Pianoteq on a Fedora 22 system, with PlanetCCRMA rt-kernel.
My i5 processor should be good enough to get good enough audio performance to run Pianoteq glitchfree and with acceptable latency.

But my experiences until now have varied with every Fedora version, and every PlanetCCRMA kernel version. Configuring my system until I get good PTQ performance can be quite annoying sometimes. But I like a bit of adventure :-)

In general I have no problems getting good-enough latency (around 5 - 10 ms) but stability is a problem and can vary with every new kernel version. It would be nice if every new kernel version or every new Fedora version would be an improvement for the audio performance. Unfortunately this is not the case. I have had versions where Pianoteq would run with max polyphony and low latency without any xruns almost out-of-the-box. Then after a Fedora and/or kernel update Pianoteq would crash if I tried to play a chord with more than 3 notes.

I love Linux Fedora. But I would hardly recommend it for Musicians who just need rock-solid performance and reliability. I don't know how the situation is compared to OSX and Windows. Maybe there are people who have tried it all and who are able to share their experiences when comparing different platforms for using Pianoteq?

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

m.tarenskeen wrote:

I have had versions where Pianoteq would run with max polyphony and low latency without any xruns almost out-of-the-box.

When you get that kind of performance out-of-the-box, it's time to stop messing around and leave it at that! Forget about updating kernel if it works!

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

Give ubuntu studio a try. It doesn't have the horrible "unity" interface of vanilla ubuntu (which you can easily change anyway), it's actually more like xubuntu shipped with a ton of production oriented software. Once you disable a few annoying programs that by default run in the background, it's pretty solid, and performance is very good. I haven't tried fedora so i can't really compare, but i know it's a derivative of redhat, which i never liked much even since the mid 90's when i started using slackware.

I have a i3 running at 3.4GHz and in normal playing, CPU usage maxes around 15% to 20% at 44.1KHz with around 11ms latency.

/* edit */ oh yeah forgot to mention, stability and performance are consistent even when a new kernel version is released. Dunno what causes this problem with fedora.

Last edited by delt (07-06-2015 22:10)
http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

I experimented with redhat fairly early, it was one of the earliest "distributions", before that we were cobbling everything together ad hoc.
I didn't particularly like it and have managed to forget most of its foibles
Without much to else compare it to redhat "Seemed" OK.

I think dpkg has done a LOT to help stabilize all Debian based distributions. updates/upgrades are well controlled because their dependencies are known.

Re: Pianoteq 5.2 i386 linux, CPU Overload

aandrmusic wrote:

I experimented with redhat fairly early, it was one of the earliest "distributions", before that we were cobbling everything together ad hoc.
I didn't particularly like it and have managed to forget most of its foibles
Without much to else compare it to redhat "Seemed" OK.

I think dpkg has done a LOT to help stabilize all Debian based distributions. updates/upgrades are well controlled because their dependencies are known.

In general I'm quite happy with Fedora. I started from Redhat 9 and later continued using Fedora.
I can say a LOT has improved since Redhat 9, also for audio applications.
But Fedora is a very adventurous distro that wants to promote bleeding edge software development. "If it ain't broken don't fix it" is *not* quite Fedora's philosophy.

Another thing is that the realtime kernel package (kernel-rt) is developed as a patched version of the official Fedora kernel by a 3rd party, and available from the PlanetCCRMA repository. It's not an official Fedora development. It can (or at least it should) provide better audio performance, but with the risk of stability issues.

Having said that, I'm really happy the Modartt/Pianoteq people - unlike many other pro-audio software developers - have made the right choice to also support Linux musicians!